Claude Silver: [00:00:00] Diversity today, more than ever, is absolutely needed. We need to be around people that have different thoughts and that can shape or reshape questions for us, so that we're able to look at all sides of the diamond.

Andy Molinsky: [00:00:17] Welcome to From the Dorm Room to the Board Room, a podcast where we provide insights, tips, and inspiration for college students, and young professionals, so they can make a really successful transition from college life to the professional world and beyond.

Andy Molinsky: [00:00:34] My name is Andy Molinsky, and I'm your host. I am also a Professor of Organizational Behavior and International Management at Brandeis University's International Business School, where we record and produce this podcast.

Andy Molinsky: [00:00:54] Well, today, we have a very special guest with us. Claude Silver is VaynerMedia's first Chief Heart Officer. Claude unlocks employees' potential by forging human-to-human connection, creating cultures of belonging, empowering teams to be purpose-driven, efficient, and strong, and infusing the agency with empathy, and humanity, and joy, which is fantastic to hear.

Andy Molinsky: [00:01:23] Claude's unique perspective on servant leadership and team building comes both from her training in Positive Psychology and her experience in talent management, leader development, coaching, workplace culture, and people operations for over 800 plus employees across VaynerX. She has founded and ran an outdoor adventure and surf company - that's cool - in San Francisco where she was in the cold Pacific Ocean coaching 250 days a year.

Andy Molinsky: [00:01:55] Prior to her current position, Claude also held leadership positions at Publicis London, J. Walter Thompson in London and in San Francisco, and Organic San Francisco. Claude and her partner live in New York City and spend as much time as they can, as you might have predicted, on the wharf. Thanks so much for being here with us today.

Claude Silver: [00:02:19] Thank you. It's a delight to be here. I appreciate it.

Andy Molinsky: [00:02:22] Yeah. well, I'm psyched to jump in. So, let's do it. So, I'm going to kind of fast forward and rewind a bit in terms of your career as we go through. But I'd love to just start by hearing a bit about what you do now. Like, tell us about your job, how long have you been doing it, what do you like about it. Just give us a feel for it.

Claude Silver: [00:02:41] Yeah, sounds great. So, I am the Chief Heart Officer at VaynerMedia. VaynerMedia is a creative and digital advertising agency. It's global. And I've worked in advertising and creative agencies for a very, very long time. So, I'm fluent in that. I have an incredible title, Chief Heart Officer. And what that really is is I oversee all of the people and their experience within the walls of Vayner.

Claude Silver: [00:03:10] So, some people might call me a Chief People Officer, some might say Chief HR Officer, but I don't say either of those. I really say heart because I believe that human beings are full of heart. And every now and then, especially in corporate cultures, we end up forgetting that part. So, my job is to really oversee and work for 800 people, taking care of whatever their needs are, be that learning, and development, growth, shifting teams, personal coaching, mental health issues, meditation, issues with managers, giving feedback, so forth, and so on.

Claude Silver: [00:03:56] So, everything you can imagine that goes on within a person at their job, really, is my responsibility. And, of course, I have a team and several people that help me scale that.

Andy Molinsky: [00:04:08] So, what's -- just -- can you give -- and I'm sure there's no typical day, but what's a - I don't know - a prototypical day? Like, what would be - I don't know - a normal day for you?

Claude Silver: [00:04:19] Yeah. What's typical day?

Andy Molinsky: [00:04:19] Yeah.

Claude Silver: [00:04:19] So, I meet with a lot of different employees. And I do one-on-ones with them. Why do I do that? Well, my job is to understand what's going on with each and every person. And so, in order to do that I need to spend time with each and every person repetitively, which is difficult because there's 800 of us.

Claude Silver: [00:04:38] So, I'm in one-on-ones. I'm obtaining information. I'm really what I call holding space and actively listening to the employees that come to my door. I'm fighting some fires. Maybe there's some issues or some investigations that need to go on, just because that's sometimes what happens in a workplace. I might be running some training, some management one-on-one trainings, or how-to-facilitate-meetings trainings.

Claude Silver: [00:05:04] I'm working with our CEO and seeing the others on the C-Suite, doing people operations work, I'm looking at some finances. Everything that has to do with people and the running of that agency because, ultimately, it is people that set and run anything, right? We're not machines. So, a typical day is an influx of energy.

Andy Molinsky: [00:05:29] That sounds really interesting. I'm just picturing. I imagine like this vision of 800 people lining up behind your door. I was like, "Like maybe like an Apple store when a new product is announced or something."

Claude Silver: [00:05:45] I know. It's funny because we're global. So, that it's going to be I'm on Slack a lot, or Google Hangout, or so.

Andy Molinsky: [00:04:57] Right, right.

Claude Silver: [00:05:54] Yeah, touching base with people. But yeah, it's kind of like an Apple store.

Andy Molinsky: [00:05:59] So, let's rewind. So, tell us a bit about your college experience. What did you major in? What was college like for you? What did you do immediately afterwards, sort of? Let's start the story there.

Claude Silver: [00:06:18] All right, let's do it. So, when I graduated high school, I did not have a lot of options for myself. And I was not a strong student. I got into Rollins College on the wait list. Thank God, I was a tennis player. And I went to Rollins for two years, played tennis, and I majored in Psychology. It was just I've always been a people person. I'm always known I actually wanted to be a psychotherapist. I've always been kind of that player/coach person. And I went to Rollins for a couple years. School was very challenging for me. And I also probably found myself a little too involved in extracurricular activities of all different sorts.

Claude Silver: [00:07:02] And after my sophomore year, I left school. And I decided to do what I call the school of life. I immediately went on a 93-day outward bound course, a Wilderness Leadership Program, where I got to learn about myself, and learn about nature, and wilderness, and people, and empathy, and team building in a very, very different way, and very functional way, very real-life way, which was a lot different than reading a book on Psychology 101 or [indecipherable].

Claude Silver: [00:07:36] After that course, after that wilderness course, I spent some more time not going to school. And, again, more school of life type of things. I did some traveling. And, eventually, I found my way to Prescott College, which is an incredible liberal arts school in Arizona. And Prescott spoke to me in a way that I needed to be spoken to, in a way that I learned, which is very experiential.

Claude Silver: [00:08:05] Went to Prescott. And then, I, finally, 10 years after I initially graduated high school, graduated from college in San Francisco at a school called California Institute of Integral Studies, otherwise known as CIIS. And that was a school that was fundamentally based around transpersonal psychology, spiritualities, liberal arts, and literature.

Claude Silver: [00:08:30] And so, my college experience was very varied. I can say I come from a family that has multiple degrees of higher education, and I definitely took the road less traveled, and really have enjoyed it because of that.

Andy Molinsky: [00:08:46] So, that's really interesting. Say a bit about experiential education because I was picturing the difference between your outward bound course and experiencing things, and then the dry textbooks. You know, what -- you, then, kind of went to a couple of schools afterwards, and you eventually graduated, and you've gone on to do some really interesting things. What's your view now on that, on like the classroom versus the real world? Do you have any perspectives on that now?

Claude Silver: [00:09:19] I do. I mean, my number one perspective is all human beings are unique, and we do not learn in a cookie cutter way. We do not learn from taking standardized tests. I don't think there's anything there that is making us smarter. I think that we learn when we apply ourselves. And whether or not that is writing code, whether or not that is planting plants in a greenhouse and watching things grow, whether or not that is finding a way to get your team out of the Grand Canyon when it is snowing and there is ice everywhere, I believe that education is out there in life. And I don't particularly find that we are learning things just from reading. When we apply ourselves and apply what we've just learned to the real world is when I think the magic happens.

Andy Molinsky: [00:10:15] So, let's talk about some specific advice that you might have based on your experiences. And I know we talked earlier even before we went on air about how you work with a lot of young people. What misconceptions do you sense or feel that young people have when leaving college and entering the workplace based on your experience?

Claude Silver: [00:10:37] Yeah. Based on my experience, I find that the generations that are coming into the workforce today are incredibly bright and have, not yet understood much less mastered the idea of patience. When you're 18, 19, 21 years old, we think that we've lived a lot when it's only two decades.

Claude Silver: [00:11:03] And in those two decades, we've been learning how to crawl, and walk, and ride a bike, and we've been learning how to make friends, and fall in love, but by no means have we learned how to get along in teams, and collaborate within teams, and take our time to master something before we get a promotion, understand how to get a raise, understand that we're not all going to be Mark Zuckerberg. And in fact, that's less than 1% of people.

Claude Silver: [00:11:35] So, patience is a huge thing, and listening is another thing. I think, I probably came to listening a little bit later in that I was one of those people, similar to who I'm speaking about, that thought I could just go from A to Z, and I forgot the other characters in the alphabet, but I needed to master the B, C, D, L, M, N, O, Ps.

Claude Silver: [00:11:59] So, patience, and listening, and asking for advice along the way. I think, that's something that is really, really crucial. But you're not going to come into the workforce most likely, and all of sudden, get that first raise within one year or get that massive promotion within one year. Things are incremental.

Andy Molinsky: [00:12:20] It's funny you said that. I was just thinking of that. And I was wondering, I thought it'd be an interesting question to ask you. It sounds like you do have a lot of one-on-ones. Imagine a young 23-year-old, 24-year-old comes into your office in a couple of days, let's say, and they knock on your door, and you say hello, and they say hello, and they sit down, and say, "You know, I am actually finding my work a little repetitive at this point. I feel like I've really mastered my job. I'm looking for a promotion and a raise." I mean, not in so many words but essentially that. How much do you respond to that person? I mean, to make it super concrete.

Claude Silver: [00:13:05] Yeah. So, to make it super concrete is, "Well, let's talk about what it is you believe that you have -- where you came in and where you are today. And then, let's talk about the roles that are ahead of you, and let's walk through where that delta is between you and that next role. Okay. Let's walk through that." And they might say, "Yeah, yeah. No, no. I, already, am strategic. I know I'm a strategic thinker." Well, what does strategy mean to you?

Claude Silver: [00:13:32] And then, we try to decipher what these big buzzwords mean and if they actually have mastered the steps to get to that next rung on that ladder. But, you know, it is such a marathon, and, you know, not a speed race, it's not a sprint, and we forget that. We really, really do. But I think, certainly, our iPhones have allowed us to forget that in many ways because things are at our fingertips yesterday.

Andy Molinsky: [00:14:02] Yeah.

Claude Silver: [00:14:03] So, what I would really say is, "Let's talk about where you are today, where you want to get to. Let's set up a system and some checkpoints along the way to make sure that you are staying on track. And let's hold you accountable. And by that, we'll get you there, but it almost likely isn't going to be today."

Andy Molinsky: [00:14:26] Right. The patience, the patience you're talking about.

Claude Silver: [00:14:29] Yeah, yeah. And I can remember, you know, back in the day, gosh, it took so long to get promoted. It took so long to be -- I had the title of Director, I feel like, on my signature for almost six to eight years that I just stayed in this director world, not moving into a vice president world, and that was tough. It was very humbling. I'll tell you that much.

Andy Molinsky: [00:14:57] The question that I have when I hear your experience and others, your reaction to others is it just pops out to me the idea between like a bit of a fixation on external status versus the immersive experience of sinking into a job, into a role. Do you have anything to say about that, about, you know, the fixation on status and achievement versus just the experience of flow and immersion into something? Is that a dynamic you noticed?

Claude Silver: [00:15:34] Yeah, I think -- I love that you mentioned flow, by the way. It's something I'm really hot on. I'll get to that in a second. So, again, you know, we're surrounded in social media right now by what we call influencers, by people that are looking like they've made it big, and they're 12-years-old, or they're DJ Khaled's kid at three year old who's got like, you know, over millions of followers on Instagram.

Claude Silver: [00:16:02] But is that really life? Yeah, sure, they're making money because that's where marketing is today. That's what we're doing. We're using people who are famous, or we're using people who are partially famous, and we're asking them to tweet or put some photos up on Instagram, and they get paid. But it's just instantaneous. I don't think that success or creating a legacy for oneself is instantaneous. I really believe that it's something that we will experience when we look back on life in 80 years or so.

Claude Silver: [00:16:38] There's so much joy -- to answer the other part of your question, there is so much joy when one finds their flow, when one finds their rhythm in something that they're good at. And if it's, you know, you're jamming on a creative brief within an advertising agency for Pepsi, and you and your co partner, you're writing, and you're just kind of like having this mindshare together, like that is sweet. Let's not disregard what human relationships and connection bring. It's not instant. Connection takes time. And human beings are wired to connect. So, it's something we really need to allow for.

Claude Silver: [00:17:23] I think about soccer, a soccer game. If you're a soccer player, you know what it's like, you know what that feeling's like when you are hustling to that ball, and you just do some great side tackle, or you just do great header, and you're just like you're in your element. Let's not forget that being in our element is something that we all crave. And it's not like it's a C. It's not the same type of dopamine hit that life is. It's very different.

Andy Molinsky: [00:17:51] Like surfing.

Claude Silver: [00:17:52] It's like surfing. And surfing is a commitment. When you are out there, one thing I can tell you has taught me a lot about commitment aside from human relationships is when you are out there, and you are about to take that wave, and you're paddling, you have to commit, and you have to power your butt off to get on that wave. And if you do not commit, the wave either passes you by or you get thrown. And that's not funny either. So, exactly.

Andy Molinsky: [00:18:24] I can say I never surfed, but I did try this summer to do stand-up paddle boarding, and I thought it was going to be so easy. And I think I probably stayed up for about three or four seconds. But I'm going to try it again. I'll try it again. Let's-

Claude Silver: [00:18:40] Yeah, try it again.

Andy Molinsky: [00:18:40] Let's hear a student question. I've got a student question for you. We're going to hear it, and then see what you have to say about it. So, I'm going to play it right now.

Student: [00:18:49] Hi. My name is [Manos Manar], and I'm a college student studying Business and Economics, and I'm from my Bombay, India. My question to you is that, what impact do you think workforce diversity has on leadership styles in the United States? Thanks.

Andy Molinsky: [00:19:05] So, a cultural question about diversity on leadership in the United States. You've been around a lot of leaders. I imagine a lot of diverse workplaces. Any thoughts on that question?

Claude Silver: [00:19:21] I love this question. I love it so much. One of the things that I pay attention to as a leader constantly is the idea of belonging. Creating safe places where people feel both emotionally and physically safe, and accepted to come into a workplace, and bring their best. It takes diversity, and inclusivity, a real commitment to diversity, and then the inclusion of diversity to create a place where people feel they can bring their best selves.

Claude Silver: [00:20:01] I believe the same thing to be true today in the United States where we have all different walks of life in front of us. New York City, where I am right now, is a melting pot of people, melting pot of human beings that all have a beating heart, that all have thoughts and ideas, that all come with different values and different opinions. The more we embrace this idea, this collectiveness of letting people share and letting people have their unique voices heard, I think the better off we would be.

Claude Silver: [00:20:41] Now, I also know that not everyone's voice out there is as positive as mine. And so, that is something that we need to take into account. Hate and negativity can sometimes be much, much louder than positivity. So, when we look at things such as diversity and inclusion and letting everyone have a seat at the table, I think something that we need to account for is that not everyone comes from a place of love. There are people in this world that come from a place of fear. And how do we smother that fear and bring them closer towards a place of positivity and optimism?

Claude Silver: [00:21:25] Well to sum up the answer, I think that diversity today, more than ever, is absolutely needed. We need to be around people that have different thoughts and that can shape or reshape questions for us, so that we're able to look at all sides of the diamond.

Andy Molinsky: [00:21:41] All right. So, these are great answers. And I'm sure -Manos] would be interested in hearing your answer to his question. Let's wind down the interview with some, sort of, what I call a quick fire questions. They're short questions and see, sort of, your off-of-the-top-of-your-head answers to some of them. Although I have to admit that, sometimes, these answers are longer than you'd expect because they're interesting questions. And the first one is, what gets you motivated at work? It sounds like you're someone who really loves what you do. What gets you motivated?

Claude Silver: [00:22:11] Change, growth, watching people go from being stuck to unstuck, listening to how someone feels as though they were just inspired, or they made someone else's day a little bit brighter and a little bit easier. Anything people-oriented where there is growth and curiosity in action.

Andy Molinsky: [00:22:34] Okay. How about a piece of advice that someone gave you earlier in your career that you didn't take but that you wish you did? And I'd have to say a caveat is if you can't think of something exactly like that, maybe just something about early career advice that you'd like to share.

Claude Silver: [00:22:51] Yeah, early career advice, I'll never forget this day. I was one of those people that fired back in emails very quickly. I didn't understand that there is an art to (A), writing an email, and an art also to taking things down a notch and diffusing any kind of tension in email form, right. And person-to-person connection is very different. But in emails, we just fire back. We just, you know, press send.

Claude Silver: [00:23:20] And I had a boss that said to me, "Claude, from here on out, I want you to take either 30 seconds or three minutes before you respond to that e-mail." And I take that lesson with say every single day, and I teach it constantly because we can hide behind email where we just need to walk across the room or just pick up the phone and have a human-to-human conversation.

Andy Molinsky: [00:23:44] Interesting. That's a great tip. How about mentoring? What do you think makes for a good mentor? And I imagine you do a lot of it, and perhaps you've had or have good mentors? Say a bit about your philosophy of mentoring.

Claude Silver: [00:23:59] So, I am a huge proponent of mentoring. I do not think we get anywhere alone in life. And for me, taking time out of my day and my weeks to mentor others, to be there to answer their questions, to be there to guide them through some kind of rough scenarios or rough waters is something that brings me great joy.

Claude Silver: [00:24:24] I had many mentors that don't even know they were my mentors, and they might have just been mentors that I saw in passing, but there was something about them whether or not it was the way they carried themselves, the strength that they walked into a room with, the fact that they were a strong female leader back in the day when we didn't see a lot of strong female leaders, these are people that I looked up to. I believe that mentorship also can happen between peer to peer. We all are students, and we are all teachers.

Andy Molinsky: [00:24:58] So, I'm a young mom -- well, I would say young, but that's, of course, you know, compared to me. So, I'm a 24-year-old. I'm in a company like yours. I hear all the time about mentoring. I read columns about mentoring, people talk about it, career advisors tell me that I need to find a mentor, and I don't really have one. Like, how do I find one? You know, how do you find a mentor?

Claude Silver: [00:25:25] So, find someone that you identify with. Find someone that you would feel comfortable being vulnerable with. That is key because vulnerability is the first way in which we can actually get things -- we can get things done when we are real, and authentic, and we take down our guard. So, who is that person that's around you that you feel like you can be yourself with, warts and all? And that's the key.

Claude Silver: [00:25:55] And most likely, whoever that person is, is also someone that is going to be as real and authentic. That's probably something that I really like about them. And someone that is easy to talk to, that's not using a bunch of jargon, that really accepts who you are and your different learning styles. That's what I would say. I need someone that's real.

Andy Molinsky: [00:26:15] I think that's great advice. And what would you -- let's say you do spot -- I'm just trying to get super concrete here. What if you do spot something like that or if you have a gut sense about it, how do you make the first move?

Claude Silver: [00:26:28] So, you make the first move. I mean, it can be scary, right, because you're asking something of someone.

Andy Molinsky: [00:26:33] Right.

Claude Silver: [00:26:34] But what it really could be is a simple statements, such as, "I really admire your leadership style," or "I really admire and appreciate how you carry yourself in meetings," or "I really want to learn from you. I'm wondering if we can meet once a week." You don't even have to use the word mentor. "I'd love some coaching. I wonder if we can sit down once a week, and you can walk me through X, Y, or Z."

Claude Silver: [00:27:05] And by the way, there's always a nice value exchange. So, if there's something you can do in return and provide value to that person in return, well then it's a win-win also. So, whatever that value is. Who knows, maybe that that value is helping that person lists some type of admin work, helping that person, you know, get ready for the presentations that he or she does. But, basically, you go to that person, and you let them know that you would like to be coached. You admire what they're doing, and you want to be liked. You want to be like them one day. You you want to have that skill in your tool kit one day.

Andy Molinsky: [00:27:46] Yeah, I think people would be honored, to be honest. I mean, I think, I often think that young people are afraid to ask, but they don't realize how much people who are older get out of it.

Claude Silver: [00:28:00] Oh my gosh. It is the biggest honor when someone comes up to you and says, "You know, you've really made my day," or "I really like the way you do X, Y, and Z. Can learn from you? Can I shadow you?" I mean, I'm completely lit up when someone says that to me.

Andy Molinsky: [00:28:21] Right. No, I agree. Let me ask you one last question. This has been great. There's so many great actionable tips for people and insights. My last question for you is kind of an --  I think it's an interesting one. It's, if we could do a little time travel in, and you could go back in time to that 20-year-old college version of you, and you could pick which one actually. You told us some very interesting experiences you had at the end of Rollins when you were -- at least, your experience there when you were, sort of, fed up with the classroom work, and you realized something else was going to be better for you. It could be then. It could be another point. But either way, however you want to put it, what would today's version of you say to that version of you back then? What advice would you give to yourself?

Claude Silver: [00:29:06] The advice I would give to myself is to be more confident, and that it's okay to be the type of learner that I was, that it was okay to be more right brain-oriented, and to have more confidence. Like the world needs people like you, Claude. Like, stick with it. That's what I would have said to myself. And it took me a long time to get to that place where I, finally, could see that the way I am and the way I use my brain is great. The world does need it.

Andy Molinsky: [00:29:48] And what do you think the 20-year-old version of you would have responded if you were told that kind of a very esoteric -- I'm just curious. Like I think it's an interesting question too. Like, I do feel like when I ask this question, a lot of people do respond just like you did, having some sense of compassion and empathy for their younger self. And then, I always wonder, "Huh, what would that younger self respond, and how would they respond?" Maybe it's an unanswered -- it's obviously an unanswerable question, but you have an instinct?

Claude Silver: [00:30:22] Yeah, I think my first instinct really was to -- so, I was very musically-oriented, and I love wise music. And so, I probably would have -- what I would have done, if I go back in time, I would have loved to have someone relate me to a musician that I really appreciated or admired. So, whether or not it was, "Hey, Claude. Look at how deep Jim Morrison was. You know, just look at how right-brain that person was," or "Look at how that poet was just as empathetic and emotional as you were at 20."

Claude Silver: [00:31:00] Probably, I think, relating to someone that I looked up to would have made me probably feel less alone because as a youngster and not a good student until I was, when I finally got it together, you know, I was on the dean's list, I was great, I was a great kid but I needed to find the right type of education, the right type of learning to become a great student.

Claude Silver: [00:31:24] But yeah, I think if I would have been able to relate who I was in the way I deciphered things in a way that someone I admired - a musician or an athlete - I would have been in the top shape.

Andy Molinsky: [00:31:40] Interesting. Well-

Claude Silver: [00:31:41] Yeah, that's great a question.

Andy Molinsky: [00:31:42] Yeah. I always wonder. I have to think about how I'd answer it myself. So, we're at the end here. And I just want to thank you so much for coming on. This has been -- you know, first of all, I learned a lot. And I know people listening will as well. If people want to learn more about you and the work you do, is there a place they can go?

Claude Silver: [00:32:04] Yes, yes. Please go to LinkedIn, for sure. Just look me up, Claude Silver. Go to Instagram. I'm very local on Instagram and Twitter.

Andy Molinsky: [00:32:16] Excellent. So, we'll find those links, and we'll post those in the show notes. But again, thank you. Thank you so much for coming on. I really appreciate it.

Claude Silver: [00:32:25] Thank you so much. Talk to you later.

Andy Molinsky: [00:32:29] Thank you for listening to From the Dorm Room to the Board Room. If you're interested in learning more about the work that I do in helping people step outside their comfort zones and transition successfully into the professional world, please visit my website, www.andymolinsky.com. That's A-N-D-Y-M-O-L-I-N-S-K-Y dot com. And, also, feel free to email me directly at andy@andymolinsky.com with any feedback or ideas for guests for future podcasts.

Andy Molinsky: [00:33:00] This podcast is brought to you by Brandeis University's International Business School. By teaching rigorous business, finance, and economics, connecting students to best practices and immersing them in international experiences, Brandeis International Business School prepares exceptional individuals from around the globe to become principled professionals in companies and public institutions worldwide. Thank you so much for listening.