Ginger Gregory: [00:00:00] And so, don't forget the people that would have come along with you, your professors, even high school teachers, bosses in your early job, those kinds of people are there for you and, especially, those that you have some kind of connection with.

Andy Molinsky: [00:00:19] Welcome to From the Dorm Room to the Board Room, a podcast where we provide insights, tips, and inspiration for college students and young professionals, so they can make a really successful transition from college life to the professional world and beyond.

Andy Molinsky: [00:00:37] My name is Andy Molinsky, and I'm your host. I'm also a Professor of Organizational Behavior and International Management at Brandeis University's International Business School, where we record and produce this podcast.

Andy Molinsky: [00:00:55] Okay. So, our guest today is Ginger Gregory, who is a Psychologist, and Executive Vice President, and the Chief Human Resources Officer at Biogen. Ginger has a passion for developing people, teams, and organizations. She's a career HR executive with over 20 years of experience, leading teams in multiple industries and business contexts, and has worked and lived in three countries and six cities. So, thank you, Ginger, so much for joining us.

Ginger Gregory: [00:01:28] Thank you, Andy. I'm thrilled to be here.

Andy Molinsky: [00:01:30] Great. So, let's start actually by hearing a bit about what you do. What's your job? How long have you been at this job? Tell us about it? Do you like it?

Ginger Gregory: [00:01:43] Oh, well, okay. So, first of all, I love it. And so, what I do is I'm Head of Human Resources. And human resources is the function in companies or organizations that takes care of people and teams from hiring, through to retiring. That's the way we like think about it.

Ginger Gregory: [00:02:03] And so, we're recruiting, campus recruiting, mid-career recruiting. We also help to make sure that people successfully join the company, what we call onboarding. So, kind of new hire orientation. We manage the compensation and rewards programs. So, how we pay people, what we pay people, how we develop people. So, promotions, and training, and lots of other things in between.

Ginger Gregory: [00:02:34] So, what I do is manage a team that comes up with ways that we do all those things, and we're constantly figuring out how do we do those things in this day and age, with this new workforce. And there's a lot of changes that are going on in the world. And so, how can we do that effectively? And our company is global. And so, we do these things across the world.

Andy Molinsky: [00:02:58] So, okay. That's a great summary. And I think that would be really interesting for people to hear. Tell us where you went. If we can rewind, tell us where you went to college, what you majored in. Tell us a bit about your college experience. And maybe, then, it'll be great to fill in the gap between college and where you are today. But first, let's start with college.

Ginger Gregory: [00:03:19] Well, so, I went to two different colleges. So, I went to one place. And I grew up in New Mexico. And I went, then, east. That's what we say in the west. Went east to college, and hated the first college I went to. I'll not use its name. Well, I didn't hate it, but it wasn't the right fit for me. And so, I transferred. And I ended up transferring to the University of Massachusetts in Amherst.

Ginger Gregory: [00:03:44] And I studied Psychology. And the reason I studied Psychology was because I started out as a Business major and didn't find it compelling enough. My one business class, it's just boring. So, I studied Psychology because my sister asked. I said, "I don't want to study business." "She said, "What classes do you like?" And I said, "I like Psychology." And she said, "Well, major in Psychology." And I said, "Okay." And that was the end of that. I studied Psychology. I love, love, love, love the field of Psychology. And I will continue to read studies and things for the rest of my life.

Ginger Gregory: [00:04:19] So, I graduated with a degree in psychology. I didn't know what I wanted to do. I went to a lecture by a professor who talked about there are many different kinds of Psychology that you may want to pursue. At that time, it was very popular to go into Clinical Psych. And so, since I wasn't sure, I thought I should probably work for a while.

Ginger Gregory: [00:04:39] And so, I worked for maybe two and a half years before I went back to graduate school. And while working, I figured out that what I liked was trying to help organizations be more. I was in a couple of different companies, and where my mind went to was, how can we make this company more effective either with different people, people sitting next to different people, people doing work differently? And learned that there is this field called Industrial Organizational Psychology.

Ginger Gregory: [00:05:10] And so, I got a PhD in IO Psych. And I loved graduate school. And I worked through graduate school as well, but it was just great training for me. And so, after graduate school I went to a job fair and was interviewing at the -- it wasn't a job fair. It was Society for Industrial Organizational Psychologists Conference, and they had a job fair at the conference, and interviewed with some people, and was recruited to a small consulting firm.

Ginger Gregory: [00:05:44] And the consulting firm did what we call individual assessments. So, you sit down and do deep dives of people before they're hired or once they're hired, and coaching, and feedback. And then, I also did training sessions on how to be a more effective employee, management training. So, I went and did some consulting work for a few years.

Andy Molinsky: [00:06:11] It's a great story, And as you've been talking, I've been jotting down some questions. So, actually, why don't we pause there. So, it sounds like where we've paused is sort of immediate post-PhD. And I'd love to just rewind for one second.

Andy Molinsky: [00:06:29] And you said something really interesting, and it really resonated with me because it's something that I hear from students. Actually, a question I hear from students a lot. They come into my office and ask me, "Should I go to graduate school or should I work first?" And you said, "I thought I should work for a while." That's what you said.

Andy Molinsky: [00:06:46] And so, I'm curious. Let's dig into that just for a moment. How did you come to that conclusion? You must encounter college students, recently-graduated students. You must offer advice or have a perspective on this. Can you talk a little bit about it?

Ginger Gregory: [00:07:02] Yeah. So, for me, I always knew I wanted to go to get more education, but I wasn't sure exactly what I wanted to study for graduate school. And so, that's why I said, "Well, let me go try out a few different kinds of roles." Maybe I didn't say try out two different kinds, but I became a counselor. And then, that was a little bit -- I realized, "Okay, that was a little too specific for me." And then, I did some back office, kind of, more data analytics type of work and had really good experiences with that. And then, I kind of did some broader and more sort of drug study kinds of things.

Ginger Gregory: [00:07:45] And so, for me, I really wanted to try a few things on and get few experiences before I picked if I want to study social psych, clinical psych, the different kinds. I knew I wanted to study psychology because I loved it so much, but I wasn't really sure which kind. And what was driving me was my interest, less though than this is the -- my interest, which would lead, obviously, to a job, but I wasn't studying, "Okay, if you study social psych, what kind of jobs can you get after that?" What I was really driven by was what was interesting to me, and how did I feel like I could really make a difference.

Andy Molinsky: [00:08:27] A lot of people I speak with, young people - I guess young as always from the perspective of me - but young people I speak with, often, are afraid of -- not afraid but like worried about getting that first job. "What if it's not the right job? What if it's not the perfect first job?" and so on. And it sounds like -- I don't want to read into it, but it sounds like you didn't have that concern. You were sort of dabbling a bit. Is that right?

Ginger Gregory: [00:09:00] Absolutely. And I can't exactly remember the perspective I had back then, but I highly encourage people to dabble. I mean, in this day and age, being in one company for years, and then going to another one, that's no big deal. I mean, when I was dabbling, it was probably slightly less common, but I think it's really important to try a few things out and say, "Okay, this sized company, this location, this kind of thing.".

Ginger Gregory: [00:09:31] And I definitely encourage people to because not every company or organization is the same. I know a lot of people who are in nonprofit, and they want to go to a for-profit kind of place. And I think people need to try out a few things, dabble, as you say, because you can really learn a lot about, "Okay, which is the best fit for me?"

Andy Molinsky: [00:09:51] And so-

Ginger Gregory: [00:09:52] Not only dabbling in the kind of organization, but also dabbling in, do I want to do a sales role, or would I prefer to be back office doing analytics or programming? So, I think you can't completely dabble in every kind of function, but you can a bit.

Andy Molinsky: [00:10:11] Yeah. I was just going to ask. That's great. You almost answered my question there. It was, you're trying things out, what questions should you be asking yourself? You sort of answered that a bit, like what part of the business do I like? Do I like sales? Do I like marketing? Do I like finance? Do I like HR? What are other questions? You talked about what kind of company? Are there any other questions that should be on someone's mind as they dabble, as they try, as they experiment?

Ginger Gregory: [00:10:40] I mean, I think that people should -- do they like working in a small organization where they can be kind of the - what's the expression - the big fish in a small pond kind of thing.

Andy Molinsky: [00:10:50] Right.

Ginger Gregory: [00:10:50] The same kind of thing when you're thinking about where to go to college. Do you want to go to a small college where you can be on every club or do you want -- And so, organizations are similar. Small organization, where you can touch and learn a lot, and be a bit kind of more broad versus a very large organization. There are some organizations that-

Ginger Gregory: [00:11:11] And people need to ask themselves, do I do better when I have more direction? So, there are programs that companies have that are six months, you're in this rotation, and then the company manager moves you to the next rotation and the next rotation. And those are typically larger organizations, but they're very structured. Versus a small organization, if you're a bit more [indiscernible], and you want to touch lots of different things. I personally started out in a very small organization, and that served me really well because I partly understood my personality.

Andy Molinsky: [00:11:46] Yeah, I know. That's interesting. I think those questions are useful for people to have sort of like a guide post, something that they're looking at as they're thinking about it, as they're experimenting.

Andy Molinsky: [00:11:56] So, let's move on to advice. I'm going to ask you some sort of specific questions. And I know we sort of paused at your immediate post-PhD experience. And then, people might be wondering how you got from there to where you are now. And maybe we'll weave that in as we talk some more. So, my first question is, what misconceptions do you think young professionals, college students have when entering the workplace?

Ginger Gregory: [00:12:25] Great question. I think that one misconception that I think that young professionals have is assuming that the experience that they're having fully represents every other work experience. And especially when you're in your first job, you don't necessarily have the perspective that every single job, company, location, culture that they're a little bit different. And so, people shouldn't overgeneralize. And I'll take a negative example, but if somebody is really unhappy in their role, then do something about it. Either talk to somebody or look for a different role.

Ginger Gregory: [00:13:07] And the other misconception, I think, is that there are -- And this, it's easy to say, but it takes maybe some time to come to this appreciation, but there's no perfect job or company. And it's somewhat a matter of trade-off and just making sure that you're having a good fit.

Ginger Gregory: [00:13:25] Another misconception I, sometimes, see is that people think that they have to kind of stay in their lane, and that everything they're supposed to do is written down. And I really encourage people to volunteer, raise their hands, or ask questions, get involved in other project, work, et cetera.

Ginger Gregory: [00:13:45] And then, another misconception is that they think that they are supposed to know everything right away. And everybody that comes into a new role, a new company is learning. And that is expected. So, you don't have to know everything right away.

Andy Molinsky: [00:14:01] That's a really important one. I hear that. We had an event here the other night where we invited professionals. We're recording this in Boston, the Boston area, to talk to students. And gosh, that kept coming up. It's almost like -- I actually wrote about it myself. I called it the Credibility Paradox, that you have to have -- it's like you feel that you need to have credibility right away before you even have credibility.

Andy Molinsky: [00:14:22] And so, how do you like -- I mean that's a really interesting question. How do you make a positive impression early on? Because that's important, but at the same time, have it be okay that you don't know everything. Like what can someone do?

Ginger Gregory: [00:14:35] Well, I mean, I think that people need to talk to people, right. I mean, it sounds really basic but ask questions. And that's okay to ask questions. And if people are really nervous about asking questions because I think they're bound to do that, I encourage people to write them down, do a little research. And if they can't figure something out, come back, and ask somebody a question. Find somewhere safe to get the answers. And the-

Andy Molinsky: [00:15:04] So-

Ginger Gregory: [00:15:04] Yeah?

Andy Molinsky: [00:15:05] No. I was just going to say, that's an interesting one. So, the very asking. So, like if you ask a question, and it's a good question, and it's a thoughtful question, and it's a question that you've researched, and it's a question that's pertinent, and all those other things that maybe that, in and of itself, enables you to make a good impression, and at the same time learn. You know what I mean?

Ginger Gregory: [00:15:29] I completely agree.

Andy Molinsky: [00:15:31] Yeah, that's interesting. So, you talked a little bit about it, how you were so passionate and still are about psychology. Were there any skills, other than sort of your interest in psychology, anything you learned from college that ended up being really important for you in the professional world?

Andy Molinsky: [00:15:50] And I do know you did your PhD as well. So, perhaps, it's more that than college. But can you speak to sort of the connection between what you did, what you experienced, what you learned in the educational world, and how that helped you or hindered you I guess in the professional world.

Ginger Gregory: [00:16:06] Well, the most important thing that I learned in college and graduate school -- well, a very important and maybe the most important was critical problem-solving skills. And so, in my field, I really need to kind of peel back the onion and figure out what's really going on. And so, learning how to really solve problems and, also, statistics.

Ginger Gregory: [00:16:29] I definitely would encourage anybody to familiarize yourself with statistics. It doesn't have to be super complicated, but that was very important for me because I'm faced with problems every single day, all day long. And somebody has a theory as to why this thing is happening. And I have to be really good at saying, "Okay, let's figure out what's going on here." And for me, a lot of it has to do with people.

Ginger Gregory: [00:16:57] So, the second thing that I really valued was anything that I learned about personality, influence models, personality models. Those types of things really helped me very much because those are the types of problems that I'm figuring out how to resolve. But the simple kind of causation, correlation types of things with staff was really helpful for me when I'm challenging other people and say, "No, that's not why that happened. But, yes, those two things happened at the same time. Let's figure out what really caused something."

Andy Molinsky: [00:17:29] Yeah, that's great to hear. And I'm sure students who are studying for stats will be happy to know what they're learning now will help them in the future. Speaking of which, let's hear a student question. So, today's question comes from Paige. And it's an interesting question. It's about she's curious what it's going to be like to be managed. So, let's hear her question. I'm going to play it for you.

Paige: [00:17:53] Hi. My name is Paige. I'm a Psychology and Human Development Major from Boston, and I'm wondering how to adjust to being managed?

Ginger Gregory: [00:18:01] That's a great question, Paige. And thanks for asking it. And I love your major. But at any rate, adjusting to being managed, it's a very interesting question because it's not like you're in the circus, or an animal, or something. I mean, you're still a human, and your manager is also a human. And I think the -- Again, I'm going to come back to some really basic things, but asking some questions about what is expected.

Ginger Gregory: [00:18:27] And I love when people ask me, how do I prefer to be communicated with? So, when you're going into a new role, ask your new manager. Do they like e-mail? Do they like phone calls? Do they like face-to-face meetings? So, asking about the process of the work, as well as what the work is can be very beneficial.

Andy Molinsky: [00:18:49] That's an excellent point. So, not only what it's like to be managed, but how you can play that role of being managed most successfully and to your advantage. Excellent.

Andy Molinsky: [00:19:02] So, we're sort of moving towards the end. I want to ask you. I, sometimes, call this like the quick-fire round. It's really just a series of questions where I want to kind of get your quick response. Though, I have to admit, some of these questions really might invite a longer response, but let's keep them fairly quick.

Ginger Gregory: [00:19:18] I'll try to be quick.

Andy Molinsky: [00:19:20] That's not a reflection on you. It's more of the fact that there's so many questions here that I think people want to know about. So, the first one is about motivation. So, simple question, what gets you motivated at work?

Ginger Gregory: [00:19:35] Making a difference in solving problems, helping people to work with each other.

Andy Molinsky: [00:19:41] And is that on -- you wake up, you're in a traffic jam, you get to the office late, you spill some coffee on your clothes. I'm not saying this is you. I'm just trying to paint a picture. You have a thousand emails. That guy, Molinsky, keeps bugging you about being on the podcast. How do you stay motivated? How do you cut through this sort of the daily noise?

Ginger Gregory: [00:20:08] I do yoga. Now, honestly, I actually really do think that it's important because I have a lot of -- There are a lot of stressors, and it is really helpful for me to take time for myself, and kind of ground myself on a regular basis. But I stay motivated. In my industry, it's very easy to stay motivated because we have patients that we're trying to help. And so, being able to -- when something really stressful is happening, thinking about or going back to what the mission of my company is really helps me a lot.

Andy Molinsky: [00:20:39] So, on that note, I was just -- it may not be exactly on that note. It was something I was thinking about as you were talking about a young professional. And what do you think makes a good mentor for young professionals? I suppose, in some ways, we're hoping right now that our advice is mentoring advice. But sort of in a more broader scale, what makes for a good mentor?

Ginger Gregory: [00:21:04] Well, I've had lots of mentors over my life. None of them were officially mentors. And so, what have made a good mentor for me is somebody that came at something, came at the field of the organization from a very different perspective, and I liked that. And so, then, I would end up having conversations with people, and they were very different than me, very different backgrounds.

Ginger Gregory: [00:21:31] And so, to me, a good mentor to me was somebody that was very different than I was, that was engaging, and like having conversations with me, and I could ask advice, like, "What do you think about this?" And I think a good mentor, my mentors were not in my organization but also -- and everybody who's listening to this has many people that they know in their life. And asking people about their experiences, sharing your experiences, and asking for advice is not always the easiest thing to do, but it really can be very helpful.

Andy Molinsky: [00:22:10] So, how do you do that? I think a lot of people worry about reaching out to someone they don't know. Should they look more in their immediate circles exclusively? And what if there's someone out there that they might be interested in having as a mentor, but they're not sure how to approach it. I assume you don't just sort of cold call someone and say, "Would you be my mentor?"

Ginger Gregory: [00:22:37] Yeah, I think that's maybe a thing on the one hand. On the other hand, people are kind of honored when somebody says, "Hey, are you willing to give me a little advice?" right. And I would definitely start within some circles that you know. But once people have graduated from college, your professors, and colleagues, and other students are still there for you. And I think that anybody will answer to, "Hey, can you give me a little advice on that?".

Ginger Gregory: [00:23:08] And so, don't forget the people that have come along with you, your professors, even high school teachers, bosses in your early job. Those kinds of people are there for you. And especially with those that you have some kind of connection with. And rather than saying, "Hey, will you be my mentor?" to say "I have a question. Can you give a little advice?" or "I have this thing I'm working on, and could I get your perspective on it?"

Andy Molinsky: [00:23:35] Yeah. And to keep in touch with these folks, to build that relationship over time. And I do find that myself too that people, the students, sometimes it's not even a student that I knew well in college but afterwards, they've reached out to me multiple times. And I agree with you that you get something out of it as a mentor tremendously actually to make a difference.

Andy Molinsky: [00:23:56] So, let me ask you one last question. And then, we'll wrap it up. If you could go back in time. So, we heard about your early college experience. You didn't like the first college, not to be named. You didn't like it. You ended up at UMass. You loved UMass, or, at least, you loved psychology and so on. If you could go back in time and sort of speak to your college self, but from the perspective now of what you know now, is there a piece of advice that you'd give to that sort of 20-year-old version of you?

Ginger Gregory: [00:24:30] Yeah. Be patient. It's a long journey. And I think don't be too nervous. I think I was always very, "What's the next thing? What's the next thing? What's the next thing." And it is a long -- I'm learning now as I'm kind of later on. So, don't be too stressed out about "What's the next thing?" or "Is this the perfect thing?" Like if you're in a role, you experience it for what it's worth. If you're miserable, get out of it. But at the same time, really try, and be patient, and learn from the experiences that you're having.

Andy Molinsky: [00:25:15] I think that's fantastic advice. And I think it's hard advice to take, I think, as a 20, 21-year-old when your friends are filling out those applications to law school and medical school, and everything just seems so set for them, and you're not feeling that way. But I think I absolutely agree with you. I think that's fantastic advice. And so, we're at the end. And I wanted to thank you so much for coming on and sharing your wisdom with us. I really appreciate it.

Ginger Gregory: [00:25:45] Well, thank you for having me, Andy.

Andy Molinsky: [00:25:49] Thank you for listening From the Dorm Room to the Board Room. If you're interested in learning more about the work that I do in helping people step outside their comfort zones and transition successfully into the professional world, please visit my website, www.andymolinsky.com. That's A-N-D-Y-M-O-L-I-N-S-K-Y dot com. And also feel free to email me directly at andy@andymolinsky.com with any feedback or ideas for guests for future podcasts.

Andy Molinsky: [00:26:20] This podcast is brought to you by Brandeis University's International Business School. By teaching rigorous business, finance, and economics, connecting students to best practices and immersing them in international experiences, Brandeis International Business School prepares exceptional individuals from around the globe to become principled professionals in companies and public institutions worldwide. Thank you so much for listening.