Dwight Heckelman: [00:00:00] There was this real burning desire to create my own thing from scratch, and then go out, and try it.

Andy Molinsky: [00:00:19] Welcome to From the Dorm Room to the Board Room, a podcast where we provide insights, tips, and inspiration for college students and young professionals, so they can make a really successful transition from college life to the professional world and beyond.

Andy Molinsky: [00:00:36] My name is Andy Molinsky, and I'm your host. I'm also a professor of Organizational Behavior and International Management at Brandeis University's International Business School, where we record and produce this podcast.

Andy Molinsky: [00:00:55] So, today's guest is Dwight Heckelman, So, let me tell you a bit about Dwight. He's got a really cool story, and he's doing something really interesting right now, I think, you're all going to be fascinated to learn about. So, after about a decade in the music industry working for major and independent record labels, recording studios, music producers -- I'm sorry, music publishers, and music industry trade publications, Dwight left the corporate world for academia, where in 2005, he chaired and designed the music industry program at Hocking College. And then from 2008-2009, Dwight served as the Career Development in Job Recruitment Coordinator at the Berklee College of Music, which, by the way, is in my backyard in Boston, Massachusetts.

Andy Molinsky: [00:01:42] Since 2010, Dwight has performed as the Founder and Director of Groove U, which is a revolutionary two-year Music Industry Entrepreneurship career program located in Dublin, Ohio, a really cool organization. He orchestrated all aspects of the creative campus housed in the world-renowned circus studios. The first graduating classes in 2014. So, this is pretty new. They're doing really well. People have maintain 96 percent job placement. Really, really cool organization. When I heard about it, I wanted to interview Dwight. And so, thanks so much for coming on the program.

Dwight Heckelman: [00:02:23] Andy, thank you so much for having me.

Andy Molinsky: [00:02:25] Cool. So, tell us about Groove U. And we'll rewind to hear about how you got into this, how you found this.

Dwight Heckelman: [00:02:32] Sure.

Andy Molinsky: [00:02:32] But tell us a bit about what it is to people who aren't necessarily in the music industry.

Dwight Heckelman: [00:02:36] Right. So, we seek to satisfy what is, if you will, the commercial side of the music industry. A lot of people, when they think about getting into music, are thinking music conservatory. They're thinking, "I'm going to teach music," or "I'm going to formally compose," or "I'm going to play for orchestra." In our case, most people, as you probably know, if you think about it, you don't really consume music that way. You listen to the radio, you buy vinyl, I guess. Now, we're not buying mp3s anymore. You listen to Spotify. You hear music in commercials.

Dwight Heckelman: [00:03:16] So, Groove U is all about satisfying that side of the employment field. We have five two-year program. It's pretty intensive. We do the equivalent of about 22 credit hours a term, and we go year round. So, our students are here for two years solid, and they can specialize in audio production, live sound, music business, video. We have an interactive track and a track for the entrepreneurial independent artists as well.

Andy Molinsky: [00:03:47] Cool. So, can you give me just a snapshot of like who might go to this program? Would this be someone who just graduated high school and says, "I want to get into the music industry"?  Is it someone who's graduated high school, worked for a while, and then wants to go back? Is it someone who went to a two or four-year college and now wants more training? Like, who's your typical student?

Dwight Heckelman: [00:04:06] It's all that. About half of our population, half to 60% does come straight out of high school. We have students who treat this like grad school. So, we've had four-year students, students who have their four-year degrees in different programs come here and do two years here. We're full time, and we're pretty intensive. And so, it doesn't necessarily lend itself really well to an adult learner. Although, we do have a workshop for adult learners that we run several times a year. But for the most part, it's the transfer student. Again, about 25% or 30% of our population has tried some other aspect of music typically, and realized it's not for them, and end up here. So, it's pretty diverse. We have all those demographics represented at Groove U.

Andy Molinsky: [00:04:56] And so, what's — this is all fun. I'm just curious about this because I checked out the website. I thought it was really interesting, really cool. Can you just give us a sense of what's kind of unique about it? What's the edge? What's unique about it relative to other programs of its type in the US or maybe there aren't other programs like it? Just to sort of give a context for people who aren't super familiar with this particular area.

Dwight Heckelman: [00:05:20] Right. So, I think what our unique position stands for is the idea that we put careers in the industry sort of front and center. It's sort of our sine qua non. Having been at four-year, taught at four-year institutions, and two-year institutions, and public and private institutions, it's kind of astounding to me still in this day and age that we don't really talk about careers in education. We send you down this path and say, "Well, business school and your career's out there somewhere." Well, we kind of flip that paradigm and dynamic on its head, and we start with the idea of we're training you for a career first. And that means that we look more like, I guess, for lack of a better term, a trade school. Apprenticeship is really heavily involved in what we do, a big part of what we do but yeah. So, that's that's the big part of our program is a career-centered apprenticeship base. And the music industry is also highly creative. So, we seek to satisfy multiple aspects of creativity.

Andy Molinsky: [00:06:33] Cool. All right. So, let's rewind then. Where did you go to college? And what were you thinking in your senior year or if you did go to college? Actually, that wasn't in your bio, was it?

Dwight Heckelman: [00:06:46] I don't know. It wasn't in my bio. Yes, but I did attend college and graduated college. I actually graduated from Belmont University in Nashville, Tennessee as a music industry student. My journey was kind of circuitous in terms of getting there. When I was starting out on my journey of the senior high school, and I knew I wanted to do music, but I didn't really know what that meant. I went to my band teacher, asked him, like, "Hey, I want to do music," and he's like, "Great. So, you can go to school and learn how to compose or go to school and learn how to play an instrument better, or you can teach music." And I didn't want to do any of that. I don't think there's anything wrong with those careers, but it just really wasn't for me. So, like any sensible young man, I joined the Navy.

Dwight Heckelman: [00:07:41] And four years later, I did start out at Bowling Green State University studying Music Composition. I took, I don't know, I'd say about a year and a half for that to suck all the love of music out of me. And interestingly enough, Bowling Green had a really small recording studio. So, I started taking some of those classes, and transferred into their School of Business. And then, that segued nicely for me having the music tech minor in school business into Belmont University, which is a business program, but also, obviously, the music business program.

Andy Molinsky: [00:08:23] So, rewind that for a sec. You were in the Navy for four years. Is that right?

Dwight Heckelman: [00:08:29] Yes, correct. Yeah.

Andy Molinsky: [00:08:30] I'm curious actually, and we don't have to delve into that experience-

Dwight Heckelman: [00:08:33] It's okay.

Andy Molinsky: [00:08:33] ... so much, but was there anything that you learned sort of at the time or sort of in retrospect from being in the military that has, I don't know, influenced your path?

Dwight Heckelman: [00:08:45] Yeah, great question. And absolutely. I say all the time that we ask these 18-year-old high school students to make $200,000 decisions about their life when they choose a college, when a couple of weeks before, they have to ask permission to go to the bathroom. So, I think in terms of myself, and my maturity, and my understanding of what I wanted to do, the Navy was incredibly valuable. As an entrepreneur, it taught me a lot of discipline later. I didn't know it at the time, but it was really influencing my discipline. Certainly, also, as an entrepreneur later, the idea of being very detail-oriented, which is in the military, you make a mistake on something, and somebody dies. So, teaching me incredible attention to detail, hyper-focused on detail  really helped me later on when it came time to do my own business.

Andy Molinsky: [00:09:50] That's interesting. And then, after you finally did graduate from college, what did you do then? It sounds like you were in the corporate world for a while. Tell us a little bit about that, and then about your transition to academia.

Dwight Heckelman: [00:10:06] Yes. So, while I was in college, like most students or like most student should, I think, at least, in this industry, started interning for record labels and recording studios. Once I got out of college, this career, in particular, career in the music industry is really a career as an entrepreneur or an intrapreneur because about 80% of this business either works for themselves, or you're working for someone who works for themselves. So, you got to think like an entrepreneur. When I graduated, I was working in a recording studio. And then, shortly thereafter, transitioned into running a music publishing company that had a recording studio attached to it.

Dwight Heckelman: [00:10:50] So, I started. I cobbled together multiple things when I graduated. I was running that music publishing company, working as an audio engineer, and then writing for Music Row magazine. And through several years of doing that, having some success there, eventually, sort of, as a serial entrepreneur, I got to work for someone who, really, wanted to do the karaoke world, which sounds weird, but we were kind of right at the time of the birth of American Idol at that time. And because I had a background in both recording and music publishing to get the licenses for karaoke, I entered that corporate world where I was the guy in the boardroom that made the decisions about securing accounts with Walmart, and Best Buy, and sort of sending our brand nationally.

Dwight Heckelman: [00:11:46] And then, doing that for a year or two kind of really got me away from what I was passionate about. So, I did leave that job and started a music industry program, pitched it around to multiple state and private institutions. And one college, in particular, Hocking College in Nelsonville was really intrigued by it and hired me to chair and run that program. Then, I was off from there.

Andy Molinsky: [00:12:13] So, you said that you were losing focus on your passion in the corporate world. Can you say a bit about what that passion is? Like, what is it that you're really into?

Dwight Heckelman: [00:12:27] So, I'm really into empowerment of the artists. And I always have been from when I started early on and started working in recording studios, helping the artists bring their creative vision to life. So, later, when I spent just almost a decade working with song writers and artists who wanted their songs birthed into the world. When I shifted into more of the supply side of that, if you will, with taking that material and getting it out to the public, I felt really disconnected from the things that I loved about music, which was helping people creatively pursue their passion. And it didn't take too long before I kind of realized that was the wrong path for me, even though it paid very well.

Andy Molinsky: [00:13:20] So, is it that the particular product in sub-aspect of the industry wasn't focused on helping people develop their passion, or was it that you weren't able to literally work one-on-one with people?

Dwight Heckelman: [00:13:37] I think that's a great question. I think it was kind of both. I think that I became someone who went to Bentonville and pitched Walmart on a product. And that was exciting, and interesting, and a great thing to do, but I wasn't directly involved in the creative process anymore of that product. I kind of worked on what we call in the industry as ANR, which my job at this company is to help select the songs that artist had already released. And therefore, we would put it on our karaoke discs because you have to get them out ahead of when people buy them because by the time the single actually hits, it's too late. You couldn't make the product fast enough.

Dwight Heckelman: [00:14:25] So, there was that cool aspect of what I'd always done, which was having a good ear for picking what would be the future single and the future hits. But at the same point in time, it was really in the weeds with all types of licensing, all types of corporate presentations. And every once in a while, I get to go to Nashville and record the songs with some great musicians, but it wasn't enough to really keep me engaged on the creative level that I wanted.

Dwight Heckelman: [00:14:52] I think the flip side of that too is I was starting to realize that even though I'd been sort of a part of multiple startups throughout my music industry career, and including that one, I didn't have enough ownership. of what I felt was important inside of the business. So, for me, I wanted -- there was this real burning desire to create my own thing from scratch, and then go out, and try it.

Andy Molinsky: [00:15:19] And does that bring us to Groove U?

Dwight Heckelman: [00:15:21] Yeah, a little bit later. So, like I said, I did a program at a two-year college for a couple years, through the successes of that program, I was able to get a job at Berklee, which is for a lot of people in academia, that would be their dream job. Berklee is a very prestigious school. There's some really amazing things. I mean, I was there for -- it was while I was there though that I realized that there was this big disconnect between what my industry was supposed to be training for, what higher ed is supposed to be doing, and what was actually happening. So, I had my light bulb moment of Groove at Berklee, and resigned, and started my own school.

Andy Molinsky: [00:16:07] Wow. So, all driven, it sounds like, by trying to -- it sounds like there are two threads here. And then, I want to hear about Groove U, a little bit more about how you actually founded that. But I hear two threads. One is this passion on kind of like helping people develop really.

Dwight Heckelman: [00:16:27] Right, right.

Andy Molinsky: [00:16:29] Whether it's their skills to be able to enter a profession or whether it's their sort of music jobs.

Dwight Heckelman: [00:16:37] Exactly.

Andy Molinsky: [00:16:38] And then, the other thread I hear is is kind of surveying the landscape and taking a sober look at like what's needed, and what's being offered, and seeing that there's a gap. Am I right?Is that-

Dwight Heckelman: [00:16:52] Yeah, absolutely. And I think, sort of, dovetailed into that is this idea of, at least, for me, I have to pursue, I always have had to pursue something that's very genuine and authentic. And in that world of academia, I started to feel disingenuous in terms of what was being provided. So, it kind of aided me a little bit, and that sort of coupled with the things that I was learning at the time fueled the start of Groove U.

Andy Molinsky: [00:17:24] Yeah. Yeah, very interesting. I mean, I think a lot of these lessons are probably applicable to other industries. That's why I'm kind of trying to-

Dwight Heckelman: [00:17:31] Absolutely.

Andy Molinsky: [00:17:31] Yeah, drill down to the specifics. So, Groove U. So, how do you start something like this? I mean, like-

Dwight Heckelman: [00:17:38] The same way you eat an elephant, right? One bite at a time, you know. Yes. So, I'll back up a little bit, and I'll talk about -- it's all right. I'll just talk about sort of the lightning bolt moment in that.

Andy Molinsky: [00:17:53] Yeah, absolutely. 

Dwight Heckelman: [00:17:55] So, the lightning bulb moment for Groove U actually started 10 years before I was at Groove U, I was writing for Music Row Magazine. I'm going to date myself here. It was the late 1990s. I was writing for Music Row, and we had a conference in Nashville. It's called The Music in New Technologies Conference. And we brought in these industry people at the Renaissance Hotel in downtown Nashville to talk about technology and how it was changing music. And we had Hilary Rosen, who was President of the Recording Industry Association of America. We had Joe Galante who was President of RCA Records. And we're talking about this thing called mp3s, and Napster, and file trading.

Dwight Heckelman: [00:18:46] And I remember this very distinctly because I was sitting in the audience. And at this point, the ink is hardly dry on my college diploma, and I'm having this sort of mini panic attack because I'm really well prepared. I realized that this, in really short orders, is going to change everything about my industry. I'm very cognizant of this because I'm kind of young, and hip, and with it. I know what's going to happen. So, my first reaction in is like fear because I've got a degree for an industry that isn't going to exist in probably space of 5 to 10 years. At least, as it always has existed, how I always thought it was going to exist.

Dwight Heckelman: [00:19:29] And my second response was actually anger because I just spent a lot of money on my college education. And not once had any of my professors mentioned MP3s, or file compression, or trading, file-trading technology. And so, you know, don't feel bad for me, I did fine, I figured it out. I went on to continue to work in the industry. But when I finally got to Berklee in 2008 and 2009, again, we love conferences in the music industry. So, Berklee was holding one the year that I was there. It was holding the MEIEA Conference, which is the Music Entertainment Industry Educators Association Conference.

Dwight Heckelman: [00:20:13] And so, from all over the country, educators were coming to Berklee to talk about educating for the music industry. And I was really excited. I went from panel to panel, seminar the seminar to hear other educators. And I'm like, "Finally." Like, kids today they're not going to have to experience what I had to experience. We know so much more now about the music industry. And for me, it was like I was sitting in a room 10 years ago, I kept hearing things like, "Well, the music industry is changing." Changing, it changed a decade ago. I was in the room when it changed. Isn't it our job as educators to know what the changes are, not to chase the changes?

Dwight Heckelman: [00:21:02] And I left that conference very, very dejected and very, sort of, turned off to what I was supposed to be doing. And I remember, I went back to my office, and I sat there with my head in my hands on my desk, and I waited about a week. And then, I handed my resignation letter to Berklee and said, "I'm sorry. I think I can figure out a better way. I'm going to start my own school."

Andy Molinsky: [00:21:27] Wow.

Dwight Heckelman: [00:21:30] Well, like, yeah, it's true.

Andy Molinsky: [00:21:34] And so, first of all, that's bold.

Dwight Heckelman: [00:21:39] Or crazy, I don't know. Ask me in another 10 years.

Andy Molinsky: [00:21:44] How did you choose Dublin, Ohio for Groove? How did you, I don't know, create the idea? I mean, just like I know you did it in bits, but just give us kind of a picture for how you do that and how do you get money to do it.

Dwight Heckelman: [00:22:00] Yeah, yeah. So, the Columbus, Ohio, Dublin's suburb of Columbus was actually our second campus location. We moved about a year and a half ago, almost two years ago into this building. We were in Columbus downtown before this. But, it was selected because Columbus -- I'm from Ohio originally, but Columbus has this amazing spirit of collaboration. We even get some national attention called the Columbus Way between public-private partnerships. And it's a very young city, it's a growing city, it's a vibrant city. It felt ready for an idea like mine that was just enough outside the norm that people would be like, "Yeah, that's cool. We should do that." So, that's why Columbus was selected.

Dwight Heckelman: [00:22:47] How do you do it? How do you get money for it? Well, before I even had money for the idea of Groove U, I started with what I knew, which was I knew people in the music industry. So, I started calling them up and saying, "Hey, I have a question for you. If you were going to hire someone, say, two years from now, what would you want them to know?" And I had little board meetings around that idea for a product course of a year where I just listened to what employers wanted from people they were going to hire.

Dwight Heckelman: [00:23:33] And at the end of that sort of year, I put together a list of sort of compiling those ideas because I kept hearing the same things over and over again. And I put that list together, and I sent it back out to everybody. I said, "If if a graduate of any program in the United States had these things, would you hire them?" And it was like, "yeah, that's what I wanted."

Dwight Heckelman: [00:23:54] The next step then was to see if I was missing anything. Were their schools that were doing this? Were the schools that were satisfying these things already and I just was unaware of them? So, I looked at the competition. I pulled down the curriculum. At the time, it was 238 programs in the country who offered something in the music industry, put it in a giant spreadsheet, and I started checking the boxes. And nobody had all six. And only about five schools -- only about 15 schools in the country hit five of the six, and everybody else got four or less. So, that showed me maybe I have merit to this idea.

Dwight Heckelman: [00:24:36] Then, it was a matter of doing what every entrepreneur does. You build your business plan. You start talking to investors and people who will come on board with what you're trying to sell, and talking with banks, and we secured a small business association loan through our through our business plan development, and then secured private investment. And that took about two years of this day-in-and-day-out work because, as you can imagine, starting a school a pretty expensive enterprise. And so, that's what I did. I got my money, and then I got my school started. And then, the real work began because I had to convince people to sign up for it.

Andy Molinsky: [00:25:20] So, it's a really cool story. And I encourage people to check it out online. Let's transition to some kind of lessons learned about about all of this. I mean, you've had a really interesting career journey so far. What misconceptions do you think college students or young professionals have when kind of trying to make their way in the workforce?

Dwight Heckelman: [00:25:43] I think one of the biggest misconceptions from sort of guiding people through pre-development at Berklee, and from what I've observed at other schools, and probably even some ignorance on my own part was this idea that you're in college now and your work starts later. And for me, your works really starts the day you enter as a freshman and say, "I am going to pursue this career path." And so, that really changes your paradigm if you take that approach because, then, you stop looking at -- don't say stop looking at studying, but you stop treating studying as the outcome, and you start looking at other things as is equally good outcomes like making great relationships with your peers while you're in college because they're on the same trajectory that you are.

Dwight Heckelman: [00:26:44] My first job in the music industry, my first real -- my first serious job, I should say, came from my college roommate because we were both studying music industry, and he was already interning, and he found out about something cool, and he passed it on to me. And that's how I got my first real foot in the door in a serious way. Later on, I heard about an opportunity for him, and I passed it back. And last year, this friend of mine who now runs a really good music publishing company in Nashville had something like 140 or 150 songs recorded that hit the charts last year. And we distribute each other as friends. So, I think that's a big mistake that you make is that I'll think about my job and my career starting my senior year maybe. If you start thinking about it on day one, things change pretty quickly for your perspective.

Andy Molinsky: [00:27:43] Yeah, it's interesting. As you're talking I'm thinking of, in my world, the difference between a liberal arts education in graduate school. Exactly what you're talking about. I see people doing in graduate school, especially like, say, a business program or something and getting an MBA. And absolutely, people treat it -- they're more active users and actors, active consumers of their experience. In college, I see it a little bit less. I see people sort of kind of dabbling, trying to discover themselves and so on. Trying out different -- see what they can learn in a variety of different disciplines. And there are a lot of arguments for the benefits of that. Do you have any comments on sort of like -- because you've just described a very practical, proactive, educational experience, which is sort of geared towards trying to set yourself up for, and prepare, and find that job, which is great. So, any thoughts about sort of the liberal arts world of things and any benefits one can get from that?

Dwight Heckelman: [00:28:49] I think there are, but I think that maybe it's a little too overemphasized. Like, let's be honest college is expensive, right. And the idea that the first two years of college are sort of in the liberal arts world, if you want to quantify it that way, are the same for everybody. I always -- personally, that never worked very well for or sat very well with me. I remember hearing that like, "Well, just go to college and figure it out when you get there because you're going to be with some people who are going to basically be taking the same classes you are." And for me, I was like, "But why? I don't want the same path as the student next to me who's going into mechanical engineering or the student to the other side of me who's pursuing nursing. My path should look different."

Dwight Heckelman: [00:29:44] So, although there's value in discovery, I guess, like, I would never discourage anyone from pursuing other education, I do think the college is a pretty expensive place to do it. If you can't go in a little more focused than that, it's an expensive proposition. Well, we already know this. We know that know four-year schools only graduate 53% of their students out of five years. And something like 60% manage to graduate inside of six. And every year you're there, it's just more expensive. More to change majors, and back up, and retrace steps. So, there's got to be a better way to -- we're all culpable in that as a society, but there's got to be a better way to get students focused earlier and more targeted in their educational approach.

Andy Molinsky: [00:30:44] Yeah interesting. It's interesting perspective. So, we're nearing the very end of our chat. This has been so interesting. And I feel like we could kind of like keep going, but I'm going to start to wind it down. I want to just ask you a question that is just -- I ask a lot of people this, especially people like you have done so many interesting things and seem to get a lot done. Do you have any kind of productivity tips? Like any like you know -- what productivity hacks do you have that you could sort of pass along to our listeners?

Dwight Heckelman: [00:31:16] So, I'll let you know when I figure that out. I think that a big thing that I've started as my role has transitioned from educator, to young entrepreneur, to director of a bigger organization is the idea of documenting processes becomes really, really important that when we do something here, we keep a really good record of it. Actually, we're in the process now of formalizing it into a sort of little procedure guides because a year from now, something very similar will come up, and we'll be like, '"Oh, yeah, that was kind of like when we did this. Now, how did we do that?" And we kind of reinvent the wheel every time instead of like, "Oh." And then, we're halfway through, we realize, "Oh, wait. We did send out the emails at this point. We did contact partners at this point. Why didn't we write that down, and who do we actually talk to, and what the outcomes were, and how successful it was?"

Dwight Heckelman: [00:32:26] So, I've become a really big fan lately of documenting processes and compiling them. And I think one thing that productivity can really get dangerous with is using too many tools, like, "Oh, I've got this type of list for this, and this piece of software for that." We're big fans of Trello here. Our sort of workflow in Trello. And then, we use those cards, Trello cards that we use to, then, translate those back into processes that we can repeat later.

Dwight Heckelman: [00:33:01] So, that's sort of a productivity hack that — I don't even know if it's a hack, but it's something that I sort of fumbled through because when you're young, and you're starting out, or when you're new and starting out, I should say. you're just kind of packing your way through the weeds, and you don't really pay attention to how things shook out. But later, once you can get your head above water a little bit, take some time and look at those processes and document them.

Andy Molinsky: [00:33:27] Yeah. And I think that that can also work for just individual people too, like college students.

Dwight Heckelman: [00:33:33] Absolutely.

Andy Molinsky: [00:33:33] Trying to figure out like what was the best process for me to try to find the internship last summer or looking for a job. I think that's really cool advice for not only in companies but just for people in their lives.

Dwight Heckelman: [00:33:48] And memory's a terrible guide. We all think we will remember, but none of us do.

Andy Molinsky: [00:33:53] Awesome. So. thanks so much for coming on this. This has been so interesting. If people want to learn more about you, about Groove U, where can we send them?

Dwight Heckelman: [00:34:03] Yeah. So, the website is grooveu.edu. That's probably the best jumping off point. I'm on Linkedin. So, feel free to hit me up on LinkedIn. URL is Dwight Heckelman. H-E-C-K-E-L-M-A-N. So, yeah, love to talk with other people about any of this stuff.

Andy Molinsky: [00:34:25] Great. And this has all been great. And I appreciate your taking the time.

Dwight Heckelman: [00:34:29] Andy, thank you so much. It's been my pleasure.

Andy Molinsky: [00:34:33] Thank you for listening to From the Dorm Room to the Board Rroom. If you're interested in learning more about the work that I do in helping people step outside their comfort zones and transition successfully into the professional world, please visit my website, www.andymolinsky.com. That's A-N-D-Y-M-O-LI-N-S-K-Y dot com. And, also, feel free to email me directly at andy@andymolinsky.com with any feedback or ideas for guests for feature podcasts.

Andy Molinsky: [00:35:04] This podcast is brought to you by Brandeis University's International Business School. By teaching rigorous business, finance, and economics, connecting students to best practices and immersing them in international experiences, Brandeis International Business School prepares exceptional individuals from around the globe to become principled professionals in companies and public institutions worldwide. Thank you so much for listening.