Yosuff Albanawi: [00:00:00] I believe that if you're not passionate no matter how hardworking you are, you're going to hit a roadblock, and that's going to be a defining moment.

Andy Molinsky: [00:00:13] Welcome to From the Dorm Room to the Board Room, a podcast where we provide insights, tips, and inspiration for college students and young professionals, so they can make a really successful transition from college life to the professional world and beyond. My name is Andy Molinsky, and I'm your host. I am also a Professor of Organizational Behavior and International Management at Brandeis University's International Business School, where we record and produce this podcast.

Andy Molinsky: [00:00:49] Today's guest is Yosuff Albanawi, who's the Co-Founder and CEO of Pilleve, a digital health company that helps patients, care providers, and payers prevent the long-term costs associated with opioid abuse and addiction. After struggling with substance abuse at a young age, Yosuff was able to recover from an early intervention from a loved one. And since then, he's been working on the frontlines of the addiction crisis that's taken over 70,000 lives last year.

Andy Molinsky: [00:01:20] He's a Forbes 30 Under 30 Social Entrepreneur, a Halcyon fellow, a social entrepreneurship—a social entrepreneurship incubator based in DC. He's a passionate public speaker. He's been on the TED stage. He's an avid runner, cyclist, painter, a bit of a renaissance man. He speaks English, Arabic, and Spanish. And Yosuff graduated from Wake Forest in 2017 with Honors in Communication in a Minor in Entrepreneurship. I could say more, but I'd love to—I think people want to hear from you. So, Yosuff, welcome to the podcast.

Yosuff Albanawi: [00:01:56] Thanks so much, Andy. And it's really a pleasure to be here. And thanks for helping me out. I hope I can live up to that expectation. But it's an honor for me to be here and really excited to dive into some of the topics that we're going to cover today.

Andy Molinsky: [00:02:12] So, I should tell you, and I should tell listeners that I found you through Ronit Avni, who is another one of our podcast guests. And she highly recommended you, not to put any pressure, but-

Yosuff Albanawi: [00:02:24] Yeah. Ronit is an awesome and such a talented entrepreneur. And we actually are fellows at the same organization, which is Halcyon in DC. And we automatically clicked the minute we met. And I'm actually honored that she referred me to you. So, no pressure there. I'll make sure to cover all the essentials today.

Andy Molinsky: [00:02:50] Yeah. So, tell us about Pilleve. What is the company? What does it do? Just tell us a little bit about it.

Yosuff Albanawi: [00:02:59] Yeah. So, really, we're addressing one of the largest health care issues that is facing America and, frankly, has ever faced the US and the region as a whole. As you mentioned earlier, last year, it took over 70,000 lives, people that we know. And we know that one out of every three American has something to do with this addiction crisis, whether it's a loved one, a friend, a family member. So, it's home. It's home to many, especially myself. Growing up as a teenager, it was something that affected me personally. And we grew up with confined environments and stigmas that surround us, one of which is addiction. That's something I realized later down the line while I was working at a rehab center, but that was way later.

Yosuff Albanawi: [00:03:50] So, for us, addiction is very personal. And what we wanted to do is prevent it from ever surfacing. We have a lot of solutions around treatment, recovery, but when it comes to prevention, what we really are left with is educational campaigns. Add to that, we've all seen, especially recently with the vaping boom. But when it comes to medical devices and new technologies, for the last few decades, we really didn't have a lot there. And when we take a step closer and really look at how opioids, prescription opioids are packaged at pharmacies, it's truly—it's outdated, but, also, the use case behind it is flawed. These are controlled drugs that, if they get into the wrong hands, can have the same effects as heroin. Not a lot of people know this, but prescription opioids are from the same pharmacological basis as heroin and fentanyl, for that matter.

Yosuff Albanawi: [00:04:53] So, how can we create better and safer packaging tools for these drugs is really at the core of our technology. So, we created a smart, secure pill bottle that monitors and controls prescription opioid use at the point of intake. So, instead of patients receiving their prescription opioids in a normal RX transparent orange bottle that we're so accustomed to, they receive it in ours. And every time they need a pill, they go on our app, log in, and that verifies that it's a patient and not someone else because that's a huge cause to addiction, diversion. And after doing that, we ask them a few questions on the pain level and their mood to assess how they're doing overall. And at a push of a button, they can dispense one pill. We take that data, and then package it, and provide it back to physicians or care providers through the electronic health records, so that they have oversight. And if a patient is taking too much or maybe at risk, we can intervene before it's too late.

Yosuff Albanawi: [00:05:54] And we're not really reinventing the wheel of the early intervention. This, in my case, was successful and in so many other cases. The ROIs there are tremendous. For every dollar spent on early intervention services, the government could see over $10 in return. So, it's something that we really believe in, and it's something that's very, very important today.

Andy Molinsky: [00:06:18] Really interesting. So, I want to hear more about it, but I want to kind of rewind here and learn a bit about your background, how you got into this. So, tell us about—we know you went to Wake Forest. So, tell us about college. But actually, before that, where are you from originally? We you born and raised in the United States? Did you come to the United States from somewhere else? And then, talk about your college experience?

Yosuff Albanawi: [00:06:38] Actually, an immigrant founder. And I came to the US for college. So, I moved—I started actually in New Hampshire, and then made my way down to North Carolina. So, I've seen most of the northeast and the south. And that's been an amazing experience. But moved from Saudi Arabia when I was about 17. And that was a huge cultural shift to Forest. But both my parents actually went to school in the US. My mom studied at UCSB in California and my dad in Texas at Rice. So, I grew up in an environment where college was almost necessary. I didn't have a choice there but for the right reasons.

Yosuff Albanawi: [00:07:23] And so, moved for college and really begun my entrepreneurial career at Wake Forest. That was where things started to open up. But it's interesting because the shift between growing up in the Middle East and then coming to the US, it's a jump. But I believe that part of that is getting out of your comfort zone and learning how to adapt to a situation, which, in just a bit, we'll dive into. But, yeah, Wake Forest was a great launchpad for so many reasons. Mainly, the school was very centered around liberal arts, and that's something that my father is a big advocate of. 

Yosuff Albanawi: [00:08:09] So, growing up in that environment definitely shaped me today. Personally, I never had expectations of what I should do or what I can do. And that limitless mentality is, I believe, very conducive to not only a career readiness, but also finding your passion, which is something that we all hear of but is very elusive, unfortunately. So, Wake Forest was well suited for that. And I never came in with expectations of what I wanted to do. From the get-go, I was very open about it, and I accepted the fact that I have no idea what I wanted to do. And that actually opened me up to a lot of new experiences.

Yosuff Albanawi: [00:08:50] At first, I felt that I was not focused. I was taking a bunch of courses. I started as a Political Science student and made my way until sophomore years taking classes in PoliSci. But in the meantime, minored in Math. I took a Comp Sci course. Took a few arts. That's why I'm a passionate painter because I actually took a few art courses in college and learned that this is something that I wouldn't necessarily want to do in the future, but it was a hobby of mine that I wanted to keep.

Yosuff Albanawi: [00:09:23] So, just taking a variety of courses at the beginning made me more aware of what I was good at, but also what I liked, which, I believe, is a really important thing to know while you're at college. I don't think the expectation is you have to find your passion, but I don't—I think that it's very rare. But what you really want to start looking at is, what am I good at, and what do I enjoy? I think the money will follow later.

Andy Molinsky: [00:09:49] So, you may—so, that's really interesting. It looks like you ate from the buffet of different courses, right? You had the Political Science and painting. And it looks like you ended up with an Honors in Communication and Entrepreneurship. You graduated in 2017. What were your thoughts senior year? What were you thinking of doing? When did Pilleve emerge in your mind? Just tell us about that time and how you transition from college to the professional world.

Yosuff Albanawi: [00:10:25] Pilleve came later. Pilleve came senior year. And I was kind of on the verge of deciding between Political Science and Communication. I knew that at the end of the day, I had to choose a major. For me, it was honestly a formality. I'd already taken a bunch of courses and knew that, at the very least, I'll graduate with a few minors because of just all the courses that I ended up taking, the variety of courses that I ended up taking.

Yosuff Albanawi: [00:10:52] So, I honestly chose Communication for a few things. First, it was a formality. It was like, "I have to graduate with something." And then, the second thing is I actually really enjoy just communication in general. What I meant by that is it's not necessarily the advertising and marketing side but actually the writing piece of it, the public speaking, debating. That was something that I really enjoyed. And that actually helped me a lot as I began to work on Pilleve because there's a huge requirement there for you to be able to pitch coherently. And, actually, I have a funny story to tell you in just a bit about that. But I really did well in communication and was able, as you said, to graduate with honors because, honestly, I liked it, I enjoyed it, and I was good at it. So, kind of, it met those—it had that ingredients there, and that was really important for me.

Yosuff Albanawi: [00:11:48] Senior year, halfway through my senior year, I started taking entrepreneurship courses because there was one professor that, kind of, was really interesting. She was—it was more of a creative course. So, it wasn't really an entrepreneurship course in the sense of like it wasn't—we weren't really covering a lot of the business topics around entrepreneurship or the financial areas of entrepreneurship. It's more about creativity. And she was a painter, a dancer, did a bunch of things. And it was more about understanding how could we tap into our creative minds, and it's all about the aha moment.

Yosuff Albanawi: [00:12:26] And I was actually reading this really interesting article [indiscernible] just a few hours ago about finding the aha moment. And a lot of it has to do with being mindful, and practicing, going out of your daily routine, but at the same time, being mindful about what problem you wanted to solve. So, I started dabbling there. And part of the course was, basically, trying to iterate and solve new problems.

Yosuff Albanawi: [00:12:50] So, that was kind of the birthplace of my career in entrepreneurship. I never wanted—I never expected myself to be an entrepreneur in the typical sense because I think that there is—entrepreneurship has been traumatized or romanticized over the last decade, and I never really thought of myself as fitting in that norm. So, I really saw myself as being more of a social entrepreneur in the sense that I gravitated towards social issues. I interned at a few companies during my junior and sophomore year around social impact, and how can we create better programs to address them? So, that was already something that I developed in college. I was really passionate about that.

Yosuff Albanawi: [00:13:36] So, halfway through my senior year, I started working at a rehab clinic just outside of Winston-Salem, and that's where I was exposed to the growing opioid crisis. And at first, it was just volunteer work, pure volunteer work that one of my entrepreneurship professors actually recommended us doing in one of our courses. And I just gravitated towards that. And I remember, I would go there every Tuesday at 5:00 p.m., walk in, and just sit down on—there were events around loved ones and those that were addicted. And it was just an open communication, open dialogue.

Yosuff Albanawi: [00:14:15] And that hit home to me because that's something that I did struggle with. I was very lucky to have been in that situation, sitting in that room as an outsider almost, observer, so to speak, and just listening in, and seeing how those family members and loved ones were affected by it. And that just—that was it. I just felt that this is something that I needed to do. And at first, we didn't have a solution per se, but there was a problem that I wanted to solve.

Andy Molinsky: [00:14:47] Yeah. So, you discovered a focus there. That sounds very impactful. And before we get to how you, sort of, realized that focus and, sort of, put all the pieces together, I just want to ask you one quick question about your liberal arts education. You said that your parents were proponents of liberal arts. I know—I don't know much about education in Saudi Arabia. I know quite a bit about education in Europe or outside of the United States. I know that the, sort of, focus on liberal arts and on, sort of, dabbling in multiple disciplines, and expanding your mind in various ways is a little bit different from how education works in Europe, for instance, where you focus much more deeply, much more earlier. You came to the US, and you, sort of, dabbled in a way, and you've really come out, sort of, with a very interesting focus. Do you have any comment on liberal arts having just lived through it?

Yosuff Albanawi: [00:15:46] That's a really good point. I would say that the Saudi system actually mirrors the European system in the way you're talking about it, essentially vocational school, vocational training. I mean, there is a great importance there. And looking at it from the Saudi perspective, I believe, we definitely need more of vocational training because we have a gap in terms of workplace readiness. There's a lot of unemployment there, and we need people to fill any jobs, necessary jobs. These are not jobs that are really impactful, but they're impactful if they all come together right.

Yosuff Albanawi: [00:16:25] So, for me, I definitely stuck to the American system because I believe that that's more of an American concept than the large system. And I think there are two approaches there. I think one of them is more of a personality trait. Some people are just more open to risks in the sense that they want to learn new experiences, they want to go through new experiences, and don't want to go through the beaten path. So, I think that's more of a personality trait. But at the same time, there are societal expectations, whether you're in the US or in Europe, where you grow up in an environment that requires you to do X. It could be law, and medicine, whatever it is. Those societal expectations, I believe, can affect us either for the worse or for the better. And I think, I definitely grew up in an environment where there weren't a lot of expectations on me. And I think I was lucky in that sense.

Yosuff Albanawi: [00:17:25] So, that's one thing that I would definitely recommend for college students, especially they're in college right now trying to find themselves, is try to, not necessarily get rid of that. There are a lot of things that parents actually—they have more experience, and they lived life. So, there are a lot of things that they—a lot of important things there. But at the same time, I believe that you need to venture off to a certain degree to find what you really enjoy doing and what you're actually good at.

Yosuff Albanawi: [00:17:58] So, what you expect you're going to do when you're in high school is very different to when you actually start getting into college, and then so on. So, I think that to a certain degree, you have to get rid of those expectations to find yourself. And that's more of a mindset shift rather than a technical skill that you can learn.

Andy Molinsky: [00:18:19] Right. Interesting. Get rid of the expectations to find yourself, I like that. So, how did you put the pieces together to start Pilleve? That's where we left off. And I think that I'd like to hear about that, how it came together.

Yosuff Albanawi: [00:18:31] When I was volunteering at that rehab center, I realized two things. First, that I was lucky to receive that early intervention. And so, how do you break that down, right? How do you intervene early? A lot of it has to do with information, which is data, right? If you have the right information at the right time, then you're more empowered. You can, at least, make a certain decision. And what I realized at the clinic was that a lot of these loved ones and family members didn't have that information. These patients, kind of, slipped through the cracks, so to speak.

Yosuff Albanawi: [00:19:08] So, they've only—they found out way too late, years too late. And that made me realize that there's a huge gap there. Why is it that family members, loved ones, doctors, whoever is involved, why are they finding out a year, or two, or three years after that patients are already addicted? And it's almost like cancer screening. We have a lot of tools today that allow doctors to do that remotely. So, why don't we have those same tools for addiction? And we know that there is a lot of reasons why that doesn't exist. A lot of it has to do with stigmas. Addiction just recently became—was labeled as a disease. So, prior to that, it's not labeled as a disease, then the health care industry is probably going to focus on it. So, that was one piece of it.

Yosuff Albanawi: [00:19:59] And then, second piece is systematic changes that led to the opioid crisis. Pharmaceutical companies manufactured a lot of drugs during that decade. And then, government only caught up very late into that. So, that basically made me realize that there is a huge gap. And how do we solve that gap is recreate what patients use when it comes to their opioids. Why is it that when a patient takes a pill, no one knows? Why is it when someone breaks into a medical cabinet, they can just open up a bottle and take whatever pills out of it? And just also seeing that within college, I know that there's a huge crisis when it comes to stimulants. Adderall and other drugs are used very, very frequently there. And it's part of the culture. And a lot of it actually starts from friends and family. They hand it out to friends, sell it.

Yosuff Albanawi: [00:20:57] So, that, basically, started the foundation of Pilleve. And I met my co-founder about two years ago. A bit more than two years ago, actually, to date. And Gautam was at Duke University. So, we are neighbors, but we never knew each other until we graduated. And that was a big piece of it. When starting a company, you have to have the right team. And that—it may sound easy or straightforward. It's actually not. It takes a lot of trial and error, a lot of learning, and a lot of trust. So, that's the biggest piece of Pilleve is actually the team and the people behind it.

Andy Molinsky: [00:21:40] So, one last question about the founding of Pilleve. And then, I want to hear some advice that you might have for people listening. Tell us just a little bit about how you actually came up with the idea for a company. Is it something—for example, is it something that was kicking around in your mind for a while, and you had a vague idea, and then you had conversations with your co-founder or with someone else, and it sort of came into focus? Or was it an aha moment where you, as you said, got into that sort of mindful mind space and had been thinking about this problem that you noticed in the clinic and there was some sort of aha moment, this vision, or something like that? Like can you just dig a little bit into the process for people?

Yosuff Albanawi: [00:22:23] It's interesting because there's definitely an aha moment, right? But that aha moment, as you said, is very vague. It's a thought. It's an idea. So, that definitely existed during my experiences at the clinic and just working in the space. But after that, that's where the fun begins, right? That's where things actually—that's what I believe is the important ingredient in starting, and only starting but scaling a company.

Yosuff Albanawi: [00:22:57] So, when I met my co-founder, his background in biomedical electrical engineering also has a passion for addiction. So, working together through the product, iterating on it, understanding it more was a whole year in its making. So, to give you a perspective, came up with the idea January of 2017. We only started working on it, actually iterating on the product late 2017. So, it took us, at least, nine months.

Yosuff Albanawi: [00:23:27] And during that process, it's what entrepreneurs and enthusiasts called customer discovery. It's, not only understanding the problem, but also figuring out who is a part of the problem. How do physicians talk about it? How do patients talk about it? How do loved ones talk about it? And that is essential. You can have an idea, but if you don't have a business model behind it, if you don't have a path to actually commercializing it, it's simply just an idea. So, there are two piece of it, two pieces of the puzzle.

Andy Molinsky: [00:24:01] Interesting. And so, now, from where you stand, what misconceptions do you think college students might have about sort of entering the workplace or, in your case, starting something up? What misconceptions do college students have? You've sort of—you've just been there.

Yosuff Albanawi: [00:24:20] Yeah, I know. So, I'll give you two of my thoughts on it. I'll provide you with kind of a misconception on entrepreneurship, and then a misconception on early employment, because we just hired actually about 10 interns this summer. So, we—this is all fresh. In terms of entrepreneurship, there's a big misconception around how sexy the space is. To be completely frank, it's very, very challenging. And that's where passion comes into play. I believe that if you're not passionate, no matter how hardworking you are, you're going to hit a roadblock. And that's going to be a defining moment.

Yosuff Albanawi: [00:25:02] So, we're very accustomed to social media, Instagram, pages that advocate entrepreneurship, and make it seem like it's something that anyone can do. Of course, anyone can do it, but you really need to be driven and need to dedicate a lot of time and a lot of focus, and also be open to failure, which leads me to my second point around what misconceptions exist when it comes to the workplace is, straight out of college, you probably have an idea of what you want to do. But in reality, when you first—when you start your first job, it's probably not going to live up to its expectations.

Yosuff Albanawi: [00:25:48] So, you're coming with a lot of expectations. You probably think that your employee is going to give you a lot of ownership over tasks, they're going to give you a lot of freedom, but that's actually rarely the case. There's a lot of not necessarily trivial work but administrative work that early employees have to do. And that's something that you have to be open to. And, for example, we hired some interns this summer. And of course, there were a lot of important tasks that we had to get done, but trust is a very important thing to develop with early employees. So, it's very rare for an employee to just hand you this huge project right out of college and tell you, "All right, get going on this."

Yosuff Albanawi: [00:26:32] Part of that is really developing your soft skills and being open to failure. Not necessarily like big failures that are going to cost the company, no, but small failures, so that you can start training your brain. I believe it's like a muscle. And the more you're open to new challenges and overcoming it, the more ownership you're going to get because at the end of the day, it's very rare that someone straight out of college is going to get this huge project and work on it. You have to expect to start from somewhere, and then work your way up. And I believe, working your way up requires you to develop your soft skills.

Yosuff Albanawi: [00:27:08] And we always hear about soft skills, but to give you a perspective, at least, what we look at is a problem solver. So, can this person take this assignment and run with it for a week or two without us holding their hand, so to speak? Of course. come back and ask for advice and insights. But employers are definitely going to expect you, if they're going to give you a huge project, to run with it. And for you to run with it, you need to be open to failure. And for that, you need to be able to problem solve. So, it's something that I believe that's very, very necessary in this day and age.

Andy Molinsky: [00:27:45] So, problem solving, taking the initiative, and so on, did you learn that in college? What are some of the gaps or differences that you think there are between college and just this, sort of, cusp of the professional world that maybe make it hard for some people to make this transition?

Yosuff Albanawi: [00:28:04] I think in traditional colleges, especially those that prioritize grades, I don't think you get a lot of that, just to be completely, honest, because you're graded on a scale, right. And expectation is you try to hit the A and A minus to graduate with a solid GPA. And by the way, I fell victim for that. I graduated with honors, and I put a lot of time on schoolwork. But at the same time, I definitely took the initiative, actually, senior year to plug myself into organizations. I was director at TedX. I was an inaugural member at that Beacon Springboard, which is an entrepreneurship incubator. I did a lot of volunteer work.

Yosuff Albanawi: [00:28:43] So, going outside the classroom, and actually working with normal people, actually beginning to develop relationships outside of college with people that are in the workplace is going to open up your mind, and you're going to get a sneak preview of what to expect. When I started volunteering, I literally spent hours just gathering data from loved ones. And someone could view this as trivial work, but it's necessary work. I didn't expect them to just hand me a huge assignment and tell me, "All right. You're tasked with restructuring our addiction program." Although it would be amazing with that on my resume, it's not realistic.

Yosuff Albanawi: [00:29:25] So, I think, college, traditional college, especially when you're pursuing careers in law and medicine, for the right reasons, require you to maximize on grades. And if you're maximizing on grades, you're probably less likely to take risks, right, because if you take a risk, you're risking the A and A minus, right? And that's going to affect your overall chances of getting into a good school. So, I believe that you have to take risks.

Yosuff Albanawi: [00:29:53] I'll give you an example. When I first—when I was part of that Beacon Springboard, it was an in-house incubator at Wake Forest. It was the first of its kind. And I worked on this idea at college with a few other college friends. So, that was my first sneak preview of, kind of, starting a company. And it was a whole different idea that I worked on. But essentially, I was tasked with, basically, pitching the company. And I remember that day very clearly. It was a Tuesday night at 7:00 p.m., and they invited all the—most of the board of directors at that Wake Forest and the ones that started this program. And there was a lot of expectations from me to go in and really do a good job there.

Yosuff Albanawi: [00:30:34] But to be completely honest, I choked. I went on stage, and I forgot my lines, and nothing was coming out. Luckily, one of my partners jumped in and took it off. So, I was very lucky to have him. But I bummed. I failed. And, honestly, I could have dwelled on it, and sat, and told myself that this is not something that I should do. Clearly, I'm not good at it. I went back to the drawing board. I figured out what I did wrong, and went back, and went back, and did it again. It was not perfect, but the next time, I stumbled on a few words, but I didn't choke, and just kept on doing it. So, for you to really, really develop yourself and actually figure out what you really want to do, you have to take risks. I don't expect college students to drop everything on the plate to try something completely new, but dabble with a few things and see where that takes you.

Andy Molinsky: [00:31:33] Yeah, really, it's great advice. Actually, it reminds me of some work that academics talk about, about a growth or a learning mindset, and the fact that you have a learning mindset, and that failure is just—I mean, obviously, it feels bad, but in some ways, it's data for improvement. If you can think of it that way, then you're able to take risks, develop and grow more readily. So, really-

Yosuff Albanawi: [00:31:59] Definitely.

Andy Molinsky: [00:31:59] Yeah, really interesting stuff. So, we're at the end of our chat here. Lots of wisdom in this interview. And I want to thank you so much for being our guest. How can listeners find out more about you or about Pilleve if they're interested?

Yosuff Albanawi: [00:32:11] Thanks, Andy. It was, honestly, a pleasure being here. And we, actually, live and grow by our community. So, one quick way to learn more is to go on our website, wwww.pilleve.com. And there's a way to subscribe to our website to get all our latest updates. There's a lot of new exciting things in the pipeline for us. So, you'll be able to get that in real time. So, that's one quick way. Follow us on social media. Our Instagram handle is @pillevecommunity.

Yosuff Albanawi: [00:32:45] And on Twitter, it's @pilleve1. Don't ask why the 1 exists. There are some Pilleve account that, actually, is active, but we're trying to figure that out. But follow us on social media. We'd love to hear from you. And share your story. There's a way for you to do that on our website. We believe that for us to really do the work that we need to do, we need to stop destigmatizing what addiction is, how it starts, and it starts with all of your stories. And that's, at least, how it started. So, we want to make sure we take that into account.

Andy Molinsky: [00:33:15] Great. And we'll include those links in our show notes as well. Thanks so much for speaking with me today.

Yosuff Albanawi: [00:33:22] Thanks, Andy. Appreciate it.

Andy Molinsky: [00:33:25] Thank you for listening to From the Dorm Room to the Board Room. If you're interested in learning more about the work that I do in helping people step outside their comfort zones and transition successfully into the professional world, please visit my website, www.andymolinsky.com. That's A-N-D-Y-M-O-L-I-N-S-K-Y dot com. And also, feel free to email me directly at andy@andymolinsky.com with any feedback or ideas for guests for future podcasts.

Andy Molinsky: [00:33:56] This podcast is brought to you by Brandeis University's International Business School. By teaching rigorous business, finance, and economics, connecting students to best practices, and immersing them in international experiences, Brandeis International Business School prepares exceptional individuals from around the globe to become principled professionals in companies and public institutions worldwide. Thank you so much for listening.