Desmond Lim: [00:00:00] You are young, and you have a lot of chance to try new things. So, if you wanted to kind of to start this project, you should try it. If you wanted to like travel, you should do it.
Andy Molinsky: [00:00:13] Welcome to From the Dorm Room to the Board Room, a podcast where we provide insights, tips, and inspiration for college students and young professionals, so they can make a really successful transition from college life to the professional world and beyond. My name is Andy Molinsky, and I'm your host. I am also a Professor of Organizational Behavior and International Management at Brandeis University's International Business School, where we record and produce this podcast.
Andy Molinsky: [00:00:48] So, today's guest is Desmond Lim, who graduated from Harvard and MIT. And then, after that, he relocated to San Francisco to start workstream.is, which is a text-based hiring platform for companies hiring hourly workers. Interesting niche there. Both of Desmond's parents were hourly workers, and Desmond was the first in the family to go to school and come to America. Desmond founded his first business after high school, which was a Thai food restaurant to pay for college. Before joining Merrill Lynch for three years, he's represented his country, his native country, Singapore, in basketball, playing in the South East Asian Youth Games and was an infantry officer in the army. So, a varied background. Desmond, thank you so much for joining us here on From the Dorm Room to the Board Room.
Desmond Lim: [00:01:44] Hey, Andy, thank you so much for your time today. Thank you.
Andy Molinsky: [00:01:49] Yes. So, tell us what you do now. Describe to us your company, your organization. And then, I'd love to go back in time and learn how you got there.
Desmond Lim: [00:01:59] Sounds great. Well, thank you so much for the chance today to share more. So, what we are working on today, it is called Workstream. So, basically, it's this hiring software. We work a lot with restaurants, cafes, hotels and more. So, basically, the whole hiring process, when you're trying to hire hourly folks, it is fairly
different from someone who works in the office. So, we are trying to use texting, and then automation, to help companies to be able to hire faster. So, all of our current workflow, it is all built on the phone. So, today, we do work with brands anywhere from Jamba Juice, Subway, Dunkin Donuts, Uber, and Monterey. So, yeah.
Andy Molinsky: [00:02:44] So, that's interesting. So, all the hiring. Is it just about hiring or what else does the platform do?
Desmond Lim: [00:02:54] Yeah. We have what we call a hiring and engagement software. So, we do everything from staffing, screening, to trying to onboard people. Those are the three main things that we do. So, as you may think, today, the whole hiring process is very, very messy. You have to post on the varied job boards, search for them, find them, call them, you go down. So, it's very hard to engage and to reach them. So, what we do is we are this end-to-end platform that helps you to search for them through texting, helping you to screen them to actually engage them, and to also onboard them anywhere from this online signing, trying to onboard them back on track. So, we are really this end-to-end hiring platform.
Andy Molinsky: [00:03:47] I see. Okay. So, let's rewind. Interesting. It's an interesting organization. Interesting niche. So, you—it sounds like you were born in Singapore. You went to high school in Singapore. Is that right?
Desmond Lim: [00:03:59] Yeah, yeah. So, I was actually in Singapore until I was like 23-24 before I came to the US. So, yeah. So, I actually came to the US quite late.
Andy Molinsky: [00:04:13] So, you—did you go to—tell us about your college experience. You said that you founded a Thai food restaurant in order pay for college. Where did you go to college? And was that-
Desmond Lim: [00:04:25] Yeah, yeah.
Andy Molinsky: [00:04:27] ... Thai food restaurant in Singapore or in the US?
Desmond Lim: [00:04:30] Yes. So, both my parents, actually, they were both hourly workers. My dad's a driver. My mom, she's a cleaner. So, they both only finished 12th grade. So, actually, growing up, I didn't really know what was college. I didn't know whether I should go. I didn't know if I should go to college because that seemed so far away. But I think it was actually through playing sports that I learned a lot about teamwork, trying to do well in my life. So, sports really played a very huge role in my life.
Desmond Lim: [00:05:01] And when I was in high school, I really wanted to go to college, but my parents couldn't help me to pay for it. So, I was actually doing that. And, actually, one of my very first business is this Thai food restaurant to pay for college. So, I was selling Tom Yum, Pad Thai, Curry. Me and two other friends actually founded it. And I actually did it throughout college. My college was actually back home in Singapore where I did undergrad. I was at this school called SMU. It called Singapore Management University where I was actually studying Business and also Finance.
Desmond Lim: [00:05:41] So, I ran this Thai food business throughout college while I was actually still in school, while I was actually still playing sports for my first country. And in my final year in college, I was able to sell this business. And it was great. I mean, this has really helped me to pay for college. It gave me very much, many kinds of skill sets. So, I was able to take everything I learned from class into this. And I think, this, and as I'm [indiscernible] like when I was in college, what was really great was I was able to try a wide range of things. And I feel like anyone who is in college today, that should really be what they are doing, trying to—almost like try out things get to know what really fit you.
Andy Molinsky: [00:06:28] What did your parents think about your going to college and starting this Thai restaurant? Did they have reactions to it?
Desmond Lim: [00:06:37] It's funny you asked that. I feel like my parents never really thought that I would go to college. Like when I first went to college, my dad was saying, "Oh, are you sure you really want to go? That school—are you sure you can go to that school? Isn't it too good for you?" But throughout, they were always trying to support me, trying to help me. I mean, we all come from very humble background, but they were
definitely very pleased. I think when I was back in college, I was very happy and touched. When my parents came in for lunch in my cafe, I was able to host them. And so, I think they are really glad.
Andy Molinsky: [00:07:19] So, that's a nice story. But it doesn't—your story doesn't stop there because you moved from Singapore to the United States. Tell us about that. Did you move alone? Did you move for a job? That's a big move. That's far away. Tell us about that experience and what you did when you initially came to the US.
Desmond Lim: [00:07:41] Thank you. Yeah, yeah, it is pretty far away. So, after college, I actually went on to work with Merrill Lynch. So, I was in banking with Merrill Lynch for three years doing banking. And it was actually then that I was trying to save up money because coming to the US, it is pretty costly. So, I worked for three years with a goal that I wanted to come to the US. So, I actually spent nearly three to four years planning for my move to the US. So, it wasn't like what you see like some other folks, "I want to do X," and you just do it. It really took me like three to four years of planning. And I think, often, in life, that is how things are. People often do not take a step at the moment. Well then, you need to prep for a goal.
Desmond Lim: [00:08:30] So, I think back when I was just finishing college, I knew I wanted to come to the US. I knew I couldn't come straight. So, I worked for three years, prepped my—prepped myself. And then, I'm saving knowledge and funding. And I was able to come really in 2013. 2013 was—I still recall. So, it was 2013, August 27th, when I first came to the US for school. So, I actually came to have to Harvard and on to MIT for school. I was doing my master's at Harvard. At MIT, I was at MIT Media Lab. So, yeah, I was very thankful and very humbled to be able to spend three great years in Cambridge and also in Boston.
Desmond Lim: [00:09:21] Yeah. So, it was definitely a very big move, but I think it was one that I knew I wanted to come for, and I have planned for, and I spent like three or four years trying to plan every single step. And it was great. I learned a ton when I was back and doing my master's program. so.
Andy Molinsky: [00:09:38] It's interesting. I have been doing many interviews for the From the Dorm Room to the Board Room Podcast. And a lot of people talk about their career progression not in such a planful for way that you're talking about it. They say they tried this. And then during whatever they were doing, they realized they liked that. And then, they moved to that. And then they had a—they had an epiphany that they wanted to try something totally different and so on. And it was sort of—it's more of like a meandering path. Yours sounds very different. It sounds very planning-oriented. Is that the kind of person you are? Tell us about that because it's actually a bit different than what I typically hear.
Desmond Lim: [00:10:27] Yeah, yeah, yeah. Definitely. I do think I'm someone who try to focus on my goals and stats because I do believe that it takes time to reach any kind of goal. People really under—people often overgage how much they can do in one to two days a week, but they actually undergage what they can do in that 3, 4, 10 years. So, I, definitely, am someone who likes the plan, who likes to plan not necessarily a few months, but the next one to three to five years.
Desmond Lim: [00:10:55] I think it was even more the case when I was finishing college, like what was saying, I actually knew—I would say that when I was back in college, I was running this Thai food restaurant, and I knew that I like to build business, and I think build teams, [indiscernible] to play sport, I knew that those were my strengths. I knew that I like to build teams. I went to build this business.
Desmond Lim: [00:11:27] Back then, I always try to think, what do I want to do with my life? That is the single biggest question for many of us folks, many of the young folks out there, like, what do you want to do with the life, with your whole career? And I think I knew from very early on that I really wanted to build something. I wanted to try to start something. And I was trying to work my way towards that. I had the choice to try to start something right after college, but I knew that there was so much I could learn through going back to school through coming to the US. So, in other words, I actually made plans from back then.
Desmond Lim: [00:12:05] I chose to work in a bank with Merrill for three years because I knew I could get some learning, network, some savings, so that I could come to us. And I knew that I wanted to come to—I knew I wanted to come to Boston, to Harvard and to MIT, because I knew that's where I can learn very much about startups. And from there, I actually knew that I wanted to launch something at the school. So, I was actually doing that during school. But even when I was back at Harvard, I was trying to do as much as I can to learn about trying to start this business.
Desmond Lim: [00:12:45] One other thing I did was I actually joined a fund called Dorm Room Fund. I'm not sure if I shared that with you, but the Dorm Room Fund is a fund that is run by the students that invests in student-run startups. So, I was one of the early partners for the fund based in Boston, where we back about 9 to 10 startups from schools in the area, anywhere from BU, from Tufts, from Harvard, MIT and more. So, I'm sure—so, yes, trying to summarize, yes, I did plan my path.
Andy Molinsky: [00:13:23] Yeah. No, that's—it's interesting. I did notice that in the bio you sent about the Dorm Room Fund. And it sounds like it's a similar pattern to what you did in college, right? So, you were simultaneously learning things in the classroom, but you then also had the experience of running the Thai restaurant. And then, at Harvard and MIT, you were learning things in the classroom and also working on the Dorm Room Fund. Is there something that people can learn from this, the idea of learning in the classroom and also learning in the practical environment?
Desmond Lim: [00:14:02] Yeah. Yeah, I do think so. I think I was very blessed both in my college and both in my masters. I was able to be doing things not just in the classroom, but I was able to really, in real life, apply many of those things that I learned from the classroom into the work that I was doing. So, yes.
Desmond Lim: [00:14:21] Like when I was back in Austin, when I was part of the Dorm Room Fund, I was actually having to meet every day with many early-stage startups and learn from them about what they were doing, what they were trying to build, what kind of apps they were trying to build, and what pain point they were trying to solve. So, through the conversations, I was actually able to learn very much.
Desmond Lim: [00:14:48] And it was actually when I was back in college, I also found that—no, sorry. When I was back in my master's program, I was actually working on my prior startup. It is called is Quikforce. That was an on-demand moving service. So, actually working on it while at the Harvard Innovation Lab. And it's a lab where current students from school can go in there to form teams and try to build stuff. So, yes, I definitely think that I was very blessed to be able to apply many of the things that I learned from my classroom into my work even while I was actually still back in school.
Andy Molinsky: [00:15:32] If you were a mentor to a college student or a young professional who just graduated college today, and you were to sit down with them maybe and sharing some Pad Thai, what advice would you give? What would you tell them about maybe misconceptions people have about college and entering the real world? Or what advice, what tips would you give them?
Desmond Lim: [00:15:56] Yeah, yeah, yeah. Do you mean when they are still in college or when they actually finish college?
Andy Molinsky: [00:16:03] I think both.
Desmond Lim: [00:16:03] Both, both.
Andy Molinsky: [00:16:03] Desmond, I think the listeners of this podcast, some, I understand are college students. And I also understand that some are young entrepreneurs. So—and you have really—you're well-positioned to actually give advice to both sets of people.
Desmond Lim: [00:16:23] Thank you. Thank you. I think when someone is in college or when someone is actually still in school, I think what worked really well for me was to try many things. Really try to explore what you really are doing. And what I tell many of my friends or even people who I actually try to mentor and help is when you're in college, we need no—no there's risk at all, right? Like, you are young, and you have a lot of chance to try new things. So, if you wanted to try to start this project, you should try it. If
you wanted to like travel, you should do it. It's like go. Like, definitely, my advice to folks is when you are still in college, you hard to get your hands dirty and try different things. And I think that is the part when you can figure out what is really good for your own career after school.
Desmond Lim: [00:17:17] And I think for someone who is just finishing college, I would say for the first two to three years, focus on this learning. I think that is very, very key. I have many friends who join big companies who have really good brands, and it was great, but I definitely think like when you do finish college, the first thing you should focus on is focused on like learning. What kind of maybe startup, or job, or career in the first two years can you maximize learning? I think that is the key.
Andy Molinsky: [00:17:50] How would you know that? So, if I'm a young professional, and I hear this podcast, and I say, "Gosh, yes, I agree. I'd love to learn a lot," how would I know if a place is a learning environment where I can really learn a lot or a place where I'll probably learn less? What would I look for?
Desmond Lim: [00:18:07] I think, actually, first job, very much so, is about who is your boss or who are you going to work with? If you are going to join this bigger company, it's really about who your direct manager is. Is she or he is someone that you want to learn from? Is that person someone that you think you can actually look up to that you want to be like her in five years from now, or maybe 10 more years from now?
Desmond Lim: [00:18:39] So, I think that is something that I try to think of. And I—there were actually times in my career for my first job when I saw my, then, direct manager, and I saw that he was not someone that I actually wanted to be like, and I asked to change team. So—and I thought that was—I think that is a very good benchmark for me because you are going to work with your direct manager every day, if not every week. And she is the one who you're going to learn the most from and actually get the most from. So, I always do that as a very good gauge. Even if you are in the company, whereby—whether it's big or small, I think the person who you are going to learn with the most is your direct person who actually works with you.
Andy Molinsky: [00:19:28] Yeah, good advice. It occurs to me as we're talking, you're also in a good position to give some advice to another group of listeners we have, which is people who are not born and raised in the United States but who come to the United States to study or work. What-
Desmond Lim: [00:19:46] Yeah.
Andy Molinsky: [00:19:46] What—you've had some really nice success doing this. What tips and advice would you have for sort of mastering American business culture, stepping into a new culture, into a new climate and succeeding? What advice would you give?
Desmond Lim: [00:20:07] That's a good point. I think there's a few things I feel. I mean, I—it seems like trying to immerse myself in this culture, I will actually start from when I was back in my Master's program. I found there were a few things that I was already doing well. I know there were few things that I was trying to plan to do better. And maybe let me share a bit on both.
Andy Molinsky: [00:20:38] Sure.
Desmond Lim: [00:20:38] I think the things that I was really doing well without me knowing that fits very well into being here in the US was several things. I think, first, was my love for sports. I think there's your things that you like to do, your own passion. It could be sport. It could be guns. I find that when you have this passion, it actually crosses different culture and different languages, right? So, I felt like my focus on sports, I love basketball, and I've been playing it since young, people can really—I could actually be very fast friends with people once I gone to the basketball court or even when I'm in this classroom, and we talk about sports and the teams that we follow. So, I thought that was something that I was really having fun doing. And I didn't have to plan or even have to try. So, I think one thing is try to know the several—you can start with all the things that you love and your passion because that can often cross different cultures.
Desmond Lim: [00:21:39] And then, the things that I was trying to prep for and trying to do better. I think there was quite a few things. I felt like I was—I read quite a bit. I think reading helps very much in terms of trying to understand about culture and doing business in the US. I—so, coming from Singapore, I think everyone speaks good English. But I thought that I could be better. So, I actually went to take some English speaking classes, so that I could actually pronounce better. And I think there is no shame in that. I thought it was really good for me to just learn how to be able to self-express better. So, I thought those were the two or three things I did that really helped.
Andy Molinsky: [00:22:27] Useful tips. I really—the one where you talked about pursuing—I like all your tips but the one about pursuing your passions, I've seen that time and time again as well. It's a great, sort of, hidden secret of crossing cultures. We're nearing the end of our chat. And you've really given us so much to think about. I just—actually, I have to ask you one more question. You seem like a very productive person with all these companies you've started and so on. Can you share—people like to hear productivity tips. What do you do, even on a daily basis, to be productive? Is there anything, any secrets you can share with us?
Desmond Lim: [00:23:08] That's a good one. There's actually quite a few, but I'll try to share just one or two that I can think off. So, how do I be more productive in my time every day? So, funny you asked, right? One of them is actually planning. So, I try my best to plan my time every day. For example, I try to get up early in the morning to try to do some sports. I still try to do sports every day. And I, sort of, plan my time. How do I spend the first 20 minutes when I've gotten to this office? How about the first one to two hours? So, I always use my Google calendar to plan out my time, not even by hour. I would say half an hour or less when I do block for the whole day. And I try to plan when I have my lunch, when I have my dinner. Even trying to read for, at least, 20 minutes everyday prior to me going to bed.
Desmond Lim: [00:24:03] So, I think that planning structure. I try to leave some room for just trying to rest. So, just trying to think about stuff. So, I always try to plan out my whole day and trying to build on that. Every Saturday I should take one whole day off
the grid. So, I try to not be plugged in at all. I try to turn off my cell phone, turn off everything, everything linked to social media, and I take one whole day off to just take a break. And that is just so very, very, very helpful. Yes. So, that is one quick key that I have.
Andy Molinsky: [00:24:41] Those are really good ones. Anything else? You have a lot of them. Do you—are you a coffee drinker? A tea drinker? Do you—what do you—any special food or drink tips for us?
Desmond Lim: [00:24:56] Funny. No, I don't drink coffee at all. So, I drink tea sometimes. So, I definitely love tea. Yeah, I—one thing that I'm trying to do now is I'm trying to have lighter meal. I am not sure if that is helpful, but I try to not have too heavy of a lunch or not too heavy of a dinner, and try to have a snack between lunch and dinner. And, yeah. So, that's something that I'm trying to do, to not have to—I'm trying to keep my meals small. They don't always work, but I think it's pretty helpful for me just not to get food coma. I will get too tired after lunch. And I will always have that break to try to look forward to after two to three hours. So, yeah.
Andy Molinsky: [00:25:45] All right. Well, though, I think it's nice. People like to have a glimpse into the everyday life of people like you who have had some real nice success in your career. So, thank you so much for being a part of this podcast. Desmond, if people want to learn more about you, or about your company, or really anything that you're interested in having them learn about, where can they go?
Desmond Lim: [00:26:12] Yeah, there's a few ways. You can either search me on LinkedIn for Desmond Lim, L-I-M, or you can send me the email at desmond@workstream.is.
Andy Molinsky: [00:26:25] All right. Sounds great. Great tips. Great insights. Really interesting interview. Thanks for taking the time out of your schedule to be with us.
Desmond Lim: [00:26:35] Yeah. Thank you so much for your time. It was very nice to chat and share. And thank you.
Andy Molinsky: [00:26:42] Thank you for listening to From the Dorm Room to the Board Room. If you're interested in learning more about the work that I do in helping people step outside their comfort zones and transition successfully into the professional world, please visit my website, www.andymolinsky.com. That's A-N-D-Y-M-O-L-I-N-S-K-Y dot com. And also feel free to email me directly at andy@andymolinsky.com with any feedback or ideas for guests for future podcasts.
Andy Molinsky: [00:27:13] This podcast is brought to you by Brandeis University's International Business School. By teaching rigorous Business, Finance, and Economics, connecting students to best practices, and immersing them in international experiences, Brandeis International Business School prepares exceptional individuals from around the globe to become principled professionals in companies and public institutions worldwide. Thank you so much for listening.