Kalsoom Lakhani: [00:00:00] Say yes to things that feel uncomfortable and travel, get out there, even if it's just going to a different city or getting a different perspective, making yourself a little bit more uncomfortable than what you're used to.
Andy Molinsky: [00:00:15] Welcome to From the Dorm Room to the Board Room, a podcast where we provide insights, tips. and inspiration for college students and young professionals, so they can make a really successful transition from college life to the professional world and beyond.
Andy Molinsky: [00:00:33] My name is Andy Molinsky, and I'm your host. I am also a Professor of Organizational Behavior and International Management at Brandeis University's International Business School, where we record and produce this podcast.
Andy Molinsky: [00:00:52] So, today's guest is Kalsoom Lakhani. who is the Founder and CEO of Invest2Innovate, which aims to support and unleash the potential of young entrepreneurs and growth markets like Pakistan. She's also partner at I2I Ventures, Invest2Innovate's early stage investment fund for Pakistan, and the country's first female-founded institutional fund. She's trained young entrepreneurs and changemakers in Kosovo, Nepal, Cambodia, Ireland, Bangladesh, Ukraine, and Kazakhstan. She's spoken in numerous places, has been recognized in numerous ways. I, really, actually, just want to get to talk to you, Kalsoom. ,So thank you so much for joining us on the podcast.
Kalsoom Lakhani: [00:01:39] Yeah. Thanks for having me.
Andy Molinsky: [00:01:40] So, tell us a bit about what you do now. Primarily, I guess, Invest2Innovate. Tell us-
Kalsoom Lakhani: [00:01:46] Sure.
Andy Molinsky: [00:01:46] ... what that is, what it does. And then, we'll kind of rewind and hear about how you got from college to this point.
Kalsoom Lakhani: [00:01:53] Sure, yes. So, I actually wear two hats with Invest2Innovate now. So, I'm the Founder and CEO of the Innovator2Innovate or I2I, which I founded back in 2011. So, about eight years ago to support startups and founders in frontier markets. So, places where it's really difficult to be an entrepreneur are the places that we want to work. I grew up in Pakistan, despite my very American accent.
Kalsoom Lakhani: [00:02:18] So, for me, when I started I2I, the place that I wanted to start with was my home country of Pakistan. And we started there eight years ago. We launched the country's first startup accelerator programs. So, it's a program supporting entrepreneurs, has since gone on to work with local investors. We started a research arm.
Kalsoom Lakhani: [00:02:37] And then, most recently, which is now my second hat, I recently founded with my partner I2I Ventures, which is our new investment fund, mainly because we just thought we've been working with startups for eight years in the country. We we now work in the region as well. And just know that investment capital and early stage money is really hard for founders to get. So, we wanted to provide a better solution that's out there. So, we just officially announced our investment fund last week with our first investment.
Andy Molinsky: [00:03:06] Exciting.
Kalsoom Lakhani: [00:03:07] Yeah.
Andy Molinsky: [00:03:07] So, you said—so, I want to hear about college. But first, just quickly, you said you grew up in Pakistan, but despite your very American accent, there's a story-
Kalsoom Lakhani: [00:03:16] Yeah.
Andy Molinsky: [00:03:16] There's a story behind that.
Kalsoom Lakhani: [00:03:18] There is always a story. Yeah. So, I, actually, am—what—I am sure there are people like this that I when I—I mean, there's this term called third culture kid. And basically, I am a TCK, which means that I was born in Dubai, my mom is from Bangladesh, my dad is from Pakistan. I was—I lived in Bangladesh for elementary school and Pakistan for middle and high school. I went to international schools overseas, which explains the American accent.
Kalsoom Lakhani: [00:03:44] It's kind of like going to a little America in the schools that you go to and you have students from all over the world when you go to school. And so, third culture kid is a reference to kids that have kind of grown up everywhere and really can—or belong everywhere and also belong nowhere, if that makes sense. So, our identities are a little bit hard to pin down because people hear me, and they assume that I grew up in the US, but, actually, I've grown up very internationally.
Andy Molinsky: [00:04:11] And so, you went to high school in an international high school in Pakistan or was it in Bangladesh?
Kalsoom Lakhani: [00:04:16] I went to the American school in Bangladesh for elementary school. And then, I moved to Pakistan in the sixth grade and went the American school there in Islamabad, the International School of Islamabad. Shout to ISOI.
Andy Molinsky: [00:04:26] Cool. So, then, you were looking for college. I imagine from there, you could've gone to lots of different places, right?
Kalsoom Lakhani: [00:04:35] Yeah.
Andy Molinsky: [00:04:35] Lots of different countries, lots of different regions of the world. Where did you land? What did you study? Where did you go to college?
Kalsoom Lakhani: [00:04:42] Yeah, because I went to the American school, there—we obviously had beyond American curriculum, our teachers were American, my counselor
was American. So, a lot of students that graduate from the American school end up going to the US or the UK, but mainly the US for university.
Kalsoom Lakhani: [00:04:57] So, I ended up, I knew that I was going to go to the US for university. It was really important to my parents that that happened. I was very studious. My nickname growing up was Lisa Simpson because I was very focused and ambitious even as a kid. And so, I think I applied to eight schools, my first choice being Northwestern. I got in, but my dad didn't want me to go to film school.
Kalsoom Lakhani: [00:05:23] So, I ended up—I had a family friend that went to the University of Virginia. And I think I went to—I was in spring break in Bangladesh, which is where my mom is from, and this family friend literally showed me the yearbook, Corks and Curls, at UVA. And I think that was the moment. I visited UVA over one of the summers, but that was the moment that I made the decision to go there. And that's where I went for four years, my four years at the university.
Andy Molinsky: [00:05:47] And what did you major in?
Kalsoom Lakhani: [00:05:48] I actually majored in—so, I—it's really funny because I really thought as a kid, I was like—in high school, I was like, "I'm going to go to film school. I'm obsessed with film. This is what I'm going to do for the rest of my life," which is hilarious thinking back on my 17-year-old self. And my dad, that was the reason my dad didn't want me to go to Northwestern. He actually said to me, he was like, "If you still want to do this after undergraduate, then I will support whatever you want to do."
Kalsoom Lakhani: [00:06:15] So, going to UVA, I thought, I'm going to do something creative. And then, my very first class I took at UVA was a Comparative Politics 101 class, and I was sold from that moment, I was a Foreign Affairs major. I did a double major in Foreign Affairs and Middle East studies. And basically, every single class I could eat, breathe, and sleep was in the foreign policy of politics,which is what I thought I was going to go into after college.
Andy Molinsky: [00:06:40] So, that's interesting. So, you majored in Foreign Affairs, and you graduated college. And what came next? What was your first job? And what was experience like trying to sort of find that first job?
Kalsoom Lakhani: [00:06:56] Yeah. So, I actually didn't work right out of college. So, I was an international student when I went UVA. Your options are very limited when you're on a student visa of, you know, you have to get your OBT or work permit to work for a year. And then, ideally, get sponsored. So, I had a professor at UVA that, actually, was like, "Well, why don't you—if you feel like you really want to do foreign policy, why not apply for graduate schools?".
Kalsoom Lakhani: [00:07:21] And so, I got into with George Washington University's Elliott School of International Affairs straight out of undergrad. So, I went directly from undergrad to graduate school. And not something that I would actually recommend to undergrads. I actually wish I had taken off some time to figure out if it's what I wanted to do. And so, it almost felt like I was in an accelerated bachelor's program because I just continued studying after undergrad.
Kalsoom Lakhani: [00:07:44] But then, after my master's degree, I actually worked—the good thing about the Elliott School was that it was a very professional program. So, classes were in the evening, which meant they encouraged you to work during the day. So, I ended up interning for a number of different places in DC, which is Washington is a great place if you do politics, obviously, and so—which is why most people move here.
Kalsoom Lakhani: [00:08:05] And so, I ended up interning at a bunch of different places. My last semester of—I started to do conflict resolution, which is what I started to focus on in graduate school, and doing a lot of work on counterterrorism because this was conflict resolution in the era of—really, I'm going to age myself, but it was 2004 and 2006. So, it was like right during the middle of the Iraq War and the war in Afghanistan. And so, conflict resolution was really synonymous with counterterrorism at the time.
Kalsoom Lakhani: [00:08:33] And so, I ended up getting hired by a defense contracting firm after graduate school, and then going straight into being an analyst right afterwards, which is really funny when I first talked about what I do now and how far I've gone from that.
Andy Molinsky: [00:08:48] And so, it's interesting point that it's funny how far you got from that because I hear that in a lot of people's stories that, in some ways, the starting point, it's not—I wouldn't say it's irrelevant, but that it—that where you ultimately end up diverged is often pretty far from where you started.
Kalsoom Lakhani: [00:09:07] Definitely. I mean, I have a cousin that just graduated from college just this spring, and she was talking to me about she'd already made decisions about what she wanted to do with her life. And I said to her, I said, "Listen, you will not—" And I was like, "It's great if you do now and you stick to it. And that's awesome." But I was like, "For me, at least, my one biggest lesson was that your path is not linear."
Kalsoom Lakhani: [00:09:32] And I think I was someone who really—again, as I mentioned, my nickname was Lisa Simpson. And so, I really thought like I was someone that knew exactly what I was going to do. When I graduated from college, I went straight to graduate school for that very reason. I moved to DC for that reason, I thought, like, my world is going to be in the foreign policy space. That's how I'm going to make an impact and that's how I'm going to move. I think my one biggest guiding thing that's kind of gone, my biggest thread through everything is that I want to move things, and I wanted to make an impact. And I think, that's a lot of young people.
Kalsoom Lakhani: [00:10:04] And so, I really thought I could do that, especially as a young Pakistani, as a young Muslim American or, now, a Muslim American in the age of like the Iraq War and things like that. I just thought I had a responsibility, and I had a lens and a perspective that I felt was important. And so, I think, at the time, I was just so focused and that's what I was going to do. And the minute I started to listen to myself a little bit, like that little voice in your head that says maybe this isn't the right path for you, that's when it started to take me in a different route.
Andy Molinsky: [00:10:34] So, tell us about your path. You said it wasn't linear. How much—I mean, we'll hear the sort of form it took, but I'm curious what you did next. It sounds like you landed at the defense contractor as an analyst. And then, not just what next but what was going inside your head? How did you, sort of-
Kalsoom Lakhani: [00:10:54] Yeah.
Andy Molinsky: [00:10:54] ... navigate the path?
Kalsoom Lakhani: [00:10:55] Yeah. I mean, you're really bright eyed, bushy tailed, or, at least, I was. When I came out of graduate school, I thought this is the best thing I should be doing right now. I was advising, mainly advising the US Army in Iraq. I was doing a lot of counter suicide bombing messaging. I was working at a strategic communications firm, ultimately, but I was doing a lot of like propaganda analysis. I was advising the US military on this is what the news is saying. This is how you should respond.
Kalsoom Lakhani: [00:11:25] So, I really thought that that was my avenue for that. And then, I was in a very toxically male environment, to be honest. I was in a lot of like hoorah. Like literally, it was heard around the office at all times. It was majority men. I was definitely one of the youngest and one of the only women analysts in my division in a really small company. And I was sent out to Afghanistan. And it was just—it just wasn't something that I started to feel heard or seen for what I was and what I knew I could bring to the table. And maybe it was just the company that I was at, at the time, but I remember, I think, for me, the biggest moments that I've moved away from that path has been because I'm the daughter of a serial entrepreneur. And my dad is an amazing business mind. And one thing that I've always learned from him is that if you have an idea, just go for it. Just follow it.
Kalsoom Lakhani: [00:12:20] And I remember being really unhappy at my job. And I was stuck there because of my visa situation, and I didn't want to leave the country. And so, I remember one day, Pakistan was on—it was on the cover of Time or Newsweek in
2000—I think, it was 2007, for being the most dangerous place on Earth. And I remember just feeling so incensed by the injustice of that title because it was not something that encompassed all the nuances of what I knew of my home country. And I remember this moment very vividly. I was really unhappy at work, but I was sitting in the back of a car with my dad. And I actually said to him, I said, "I can't believe that this is the cover. This is bullshit." And my dad said, "Well, what are you going to do about it?" And that's actually my dad in a in a nutshell. He always asks me out. He's like, "Well, what are you going to do about it?".
Kalsoom Lakhani: [00:13:06] And so, I decided while I was working, I ended up starting a current affairs blog on Pakistan called CHUP or CHanging Up Pakistan. But chup in Urdu or Hindi also means shush. And it actually started to become my avenue for creation and creativity. And I wrote it by night. So, I was working during the day like crazy hours. But every night, I was writing till 3:00-4:00 in the morning. And I was doing an analysis of what was happening in the news in Pakistan. I was covering filmmakers, and artists, and all the voices you weren't hearing about in the news, and realizing that it started to become this platform that, then, other people wanted me to write for them. I was speaking for the BBC and for a number of other outlets. This is when blogging was hitting this big trend.
Kalsoom Lakhani: [00:13:50] And just kind of that moment of realizing like, "Oh, wow! Saying yes to something that was uncomfortable, and saying yes to what are you going to do about it, and doing something created this avenue that I didn't realize that I had a voice that people wanted to listen to or that there was so much outside of my periphery and so much outside of—I was like a horse with blinders on. Like so much that was out there, like creatives and artists, and it was almost tapping back into 17-year-old Kolsoom who was this wannabe filmmaker, want to be like the film critic at the time, and remembering that there was so much more out there.
Kalsoom Lakhani: [00:14:25] And so, for me, that was kind of what started the path into the entrepreneurship space, to be honest. I switched into a different day job and moved into the venture philanthropy space. And that's really where the inspiration behind I2I came. But it really—so much of it was me just saying yes, and then just
asking a lot of questions while I was—you're writing a blog, you're doing a ton of—you're asking a ton of questions, you're listening a lot. And as you're listening, you're getting inspired. Yeah, that was really what started to lead me down this path.
Andy Molinsky: [00:14:56] What, ultimately, caused the—I mean, did you—you left that firm, and you said you changed your day job. Was that sort of because that you needed that to make ends meet, and you were doing the other stuff-
Kalsoom Lakhani: [00:15:08] Yeah.
Andy Molinsky: [00:15:08] ... as kind of side hustle? Is that what it was?
Kalsoom Lakhani: [00:15:09] Totally. Yeah. I mean, I think that I was really lucky at the time that I got an out to be able to move into a different space. And yes, definitely, blogging was not something that was paying the bills. It wouldn't keep my lights on. But then, while I was in the venture philanthropy space, which is ultimately like a really fancy word for kind of trying to take a different take on philanthropy and how philanthropy can provide support to social enterprise, and to high risk return capital that's really necessary for early stage companies, and really diving kind of headfirst - this was 10 years ago - into the social impact space. And just going to—and I am kind of like a horse with blinders on when I'm learning something new. So, I went to every imaginable conference. I was meeting up, taking people for coffee just to understand what they did.
Kalsoom Lakhani: [00:15:57] And as I was doing that, that's when I really started to realize that there was this hidden opportunity that no one was talking about. Like no one was—everyone was talking about the same countries that they were putting money into. Everyone, at the time, was India, Brazil, Mexico, East Africa. And, actually, that continues to be the case right now. And no one was talking about countries like Pakistan, or Nigeria, or Vietnam, and places where the potential was as high, where there is so many young people and so many challenges to address. But no one was working there because it was too high risk and too hard to navigate.
Kalsoom Lakhani: [00:16:30] And so, back to my dad's question as, what are you going to do about it, and I made that decision in 2011 to start I2I because I really saw that potential at the time. But it really came from while I was working in this new field of just like asking so many questions, and really listening, and kind of being like this kid in a candy store of just like, "I want to learn everything about the space." And that was really the attitude and the perspective I came in with it.
Andy Molinsky: [00:17:01] So, you've told us some really interesting story about your career journey. From from where you stand now, what misconceptions do you think college students have about, sort of, entering the workforce, building a career?
Kalsoom Lakhani: [00:17:15] Yeah. I mean, I think that it kind of speaks to a lot of things that I've already said was I think that you feel like you have to know how—you have to have all the answers when you're graduating. And I feel, at least, I thought I did, and I felt like that was kind of what was being told to me, maybe just society, I felt that way, like I need to know what I need to do. I need to know where I'm going with my life. And I think that's kind of the biggest lie and the biggest myth that someone can say to you. Like I think it's great to have an idea and have passions, but I think we are dynamic as humans. So, we are ever-changing, and the world is ever-changing around us.
Kalsoom Lakhani: [00:17:51] So, I think my biggest—that's the biggest myth. And I think my biggest response to that is to say yes to things that feel uncomfortable, and travel, get out there. Even if it's just going to a different city or getting a different perspective, making yourself a little bit more uncomfortable than what you're used to because, I think, you always find inspiration and potential for creativity in those in those moments and in those moments of discomfort. And that's—that to me was like the big thing of when you're coming out of college, you're told this very top down, almost like program like this way you have to do. And I think that's not true.
Andy Molinsky: [00:18:30] Were there—speaking of college, you majored in Foreign Affairs. I know you went to graduate school right afterwards. And I know you're passionate about film in high school. And perhaps that carried through as a latent—maybe a latent interest. Were there any actual skills, anything you've learned in
college or, frankly, in graduate school that end up being like super useful for what you do now, or not, or maybe even something unexpected?
Kalsoom Lakhani: [00:18:56] Yeah. It's interesting. So, my joke has always been that I have a Master's in Conflict Resolution, and I don't actually manage or mitigate any conflicts in the world. It's always like family or situations. And that actually was like a really great life skill. I've always been a very big diplomat, but learning negotiation, learning how to bring parties together is when you're working and operating in a market like Pakistan, and we work in Bangladesh, and work in like—obviously, I traveled around the world and worked in really different places, you learn what it means to bring people together, and to listen, and to think about what is it that everyone is saying that is a common thread, and how do we bring people together in that way, so that we have common ground. And that even though conflict resolution when I was thinking about it, it was not—this is not what I was going to use it for, it has come into so many situations, especially in Pakistan, where on a regular basis, I am coming up against something, and I have to figure out a way around stuff. And so, that, to me, is one.
Kalsoom Lakhani: [00:20:00] The second thing generally with your college education, especially with a Liberal Arts education, is it teaches you critical thinking. And I think that I grew up in a country like Pakistan. I had the privilege of going to one of the best schools and having an American-style education. Education in most of our country is an emerging market. It's not like that. It's very much rote memorization. It's top down. And so, to go to a US university, and to have the freedom to kind of explore, and to try different things, and to think critically about things, and to question things is one of the best life lessons and the best type of skills that I brought into my work because, I think, that kind of puts you into what I call a growth mindset versus a fixed mindset. So, a fixed mindset are people that don't ever challenge anything and are okay with the status quo or maybe are the status quo. Growth mindset is you're constantly thinking, and questioning, and curious about things. But I think college really gave me that.
Kalsoom Lakhani: [00:20:54] And I would say the last thing is I was an analyst. That skill, actually, is we built an entire research arm of our company. I can do our—we can do our own research. I mean, I can do my own research. Like right now, I have to work
on something, a big project that we're doing with a big client in Pakistan. And I have the ability. I don't just—I do hire out for it, and we have an amazing research team. But, also, as the founder of the company, I have that skill set to be able to analyze things and think critically about things. So, I've definitely used things, just maybe not in the traditional sense of how I thought it was originally going to be applied.
Andy Molinsky: [00:21:29] So, this has been really interesting. It sounds like your career has taken a very interesting turn. And I'd be curious. One last question is about mentorship. You talked a bit about your dad in that sort of question that rings in my head as I'm thinking about it, what are you going to do about it? I love that. Tell us about the role of mentors in your career so far. And I'd actually be curious about both directions. People you've had as mentors and, also, any mentoring you've done, and the ,importance or lack of importance, or any tips, or insights about that.
Kalsoom Lakhani: [00:22:04] Yeah, I think mentors are so pivotal for you. I think it's also, sometimes, an overused term. And so, a lot of times, someone will claim someone as a mentor. And it's an interesting thing of like who makes the mentor or what does that relationship look like? And it's something that I think, often, has to be defined by both parties or multiple parties. So, definitely, when I started I2I, obviously, I grew up with the best type of business school you can go to as being the daughter of an entrepreneur, right, because around the dinner table, I was hearing stories about failure and not just success. Actually, my dad would talk about how he made his first million before he was 30, and then lost all of it when we were little. And how my mom had to teach exercise classes to keep the lights on. And just all of these stories of the type of risk appetite that my father had was the best kind of business school a kid could go to. But—and he continues to be like one of my favorite sounding boards, and someone who I really feel is a big cheerleader of mine, as is my mom.
Kalsoom Lakhani: [00:23:07] But mentoring, when I started I2I, I really knew very much from the get-go that I really needed people to support me, to advise me, to tell me what I didn't want to hear. And I think that's what's really important is you don't want to have an echo chamber around you. You don't want people telling you how amazing you are. You want people that are going to challenge you and be critical of you in a
constructive way. And so, with I2I, when I started, there were people that I really looked up to in the space, and people that had built companies, and where I saw the growth of where I wanted to take the company. And so, those were people that I literally just would cold call, or message, Twitter, DM. I would slide into their DMs and ask to take them for coffee. And some of those people are still on my board of advisors today. They're still people who cheerlead, even if I don't see them on a regular basis.
Kalsoom Lakhani: [00:23:57] And what I think has been really amazing is just as an example of one of my mentors is someone who I love so dearly. He is someone that, I think, I launched I2I three months before I was at a conference, and you know you have this like—and I say this for people that start businesses today, you have this like almost arrogant assumption that you're building something that everybody loves and wants. I think there is a quality of narcissism available on every entrepreneur in some way. And so, I remember really confidently telling this guy at a conference about this company that I was starting, and he literally tore it apart. Like he just told—it was like I had—I don't cry really easily, and I had—it was like my eyes were stinging because I was like, "I'm going to cry. This is everything. He's ripped it apart."
Kalsoom Lakhani: [00:24:44] But after I took a minute, and I went back, and kind of licked my wounds a little bit, I was like, "Wow! That is the most valuable feedback that I've gotten. No one else has said that to me." And so, I remember seeing him literally a year later at another conference, and he still, to this day, has no recollection of doing this to me. And he was like, "Hey!" Like really happy to see me, and I just said to him, I said, "I just want you to know that a year ago, you gave me some of the harshest feedback that I've ever had. And it was the best feedback I've ever gotten. And I've had this, and this, and this to my business. And will you be on my board of advisors?" And he's been on my board for the last eight years since I started the company.
Kalsoom Lakhani: [00:25:19] And so, that's really a good example. And then, on your question about mentoring down, some mentoring up is, obviously, like I look for mentors. Obviously, I work with startups. So, I mentor on. It's part of my job. It's part of what I do. I've had so many founders that have come through our program, as well as people that I continue to work with and in our network. And for me, that's the most fun
thing. Like nothing gets me more excited than someone that wants to meet up for coffee and get feedback on their idea. And for people that I have a sustained relationship with, I get really invested in.
Kalsoom Lakhani: [00:25:50] Actually, what's really cool is that one of our—our first investment that we announced with I2I Ventures last week is a company that was part of our accelerator program two years ago. And they're some of my favorite founders. They're a husband and wife duo. They created an on-demand platform for temporary household help. So, on-demand cleaners, and cooks, and nannies in Pakistan. And I continue to have this amazing relationship with them. And that really served us so well in our first—our investment negotiation process because the minute things felt a little bit faulty, they called me up and were like, "We just want to have a conversation with you because we trust you." And I think that's really the fundamental foundation of a good mentoring relationship.
Kalsoom Lakhani: [00:26:30] And then, the last thing I'll say about mentoring is one thing to not take for granted is the idea of peer mentors, and people who are around you who are the same age and the same level as you. And how important that's been for me. I've been a big part of a community called Sandbox, which is a community and network of people doing innovative things under 30. I'm no longer under 30, but I used to run the DC community. And that was so pivotal for me in helping to build I2I. And I since had a personal board of advisors of friends from that community. I, now, have like a new mastermind group of friends that work in the same space as me. One, actually, I'm seeing in Vancouver tomorrow for our annual summit. And we just—it's just so amazing to have people that you truly, truly respect at your peer level and can give you the feedback that you need to hear and, sometimes, you don't want to hear.
Andy Molinsky: [00:27:20] Wow. Excellent advice. I imagine that anyone listening to this is going to just come away with so many great nuggets and inspiration from your story. I really—really, thanks so much for coming on. And if anyone wants to learn about you, about your organization, about what you do work, where can they go?
Kalsoom Lakhani: [00:27:39] Sure. And so, you can go to our website, www.invest2innovate.com, or you can—I guess, you can reach out on Twitter, @kalsoom82. But yeah, you can find out more about it on our website or on Facebook.
Andy Molinsky: [00:27:57] Cool. Thanks again. This is great.
Kalsoom Lakhani: [00:27:59] Yeah. Thank you so much. Thanks for having me.
Andy Molinsky: [00:28:03] Thank you for listening to From the Dorm Room to the Board Room. If you're interested in learning more about the work that I do in helping people step outside their comfort zones and transition successfully into the professional world, please visit my website, www.andymolinsky.com. That's A-N-D-Y-M-O-L-I-N-S-K-Y dot com. And also feel free to email me directly at andy@andymolinsky.com with any feedback or ideas for guests for future podcasts.
Andy Molinsky: [00:28:34] This podcast is brought to you by Brandeis University's International Business School. By teaching rigorous Business, Finance, and Economics, connecting students to best practices, and immersing them in international experiences, Brandeis International Business School prepares exceptional individuals from around the globe to become principled professionals in companies and public institutions worldwide. Thank you so much for listening.