Lisa Loeb: [00:00:00] Try to find time to step back and reflect on what you want to have your life look like, and do, and see, and meet as many people as you can now.

Andy Molinsky: [00:00:12] Welcome to From the Dorm Room to the Board Room, a podcast where we provide insights, tips, and inspiration for college students and young professionals, so they can make a really successful transition from college life to the professional world and beyond.

Andy Molinsky: [00:00:30] My name is Andy Molinsky, and I'm your host. I am also a Professor of Organizational Behavior and International Management at Brandeis University's International Business School, where we record and produce this podcast.

Andy Molinsky: [00:00:50] Okay. So, today's guest is Lisa Loeb, who is a Grammy-winning singer songwriter who was launched into the spotlight with a platinum selling number one hit song, Stay. And Lisa is a trailblazing independent artist. She continues to craft pop songs for the 21st Century. She designs Lisa Loeb Eyewear. You can tell she's an entrepreneur. She writes and records music for film and TV. She's very active in supporting nonprofit causes. She has two kids. She's a mom. She's well-known to parents and kids for her many children's albums. Lots more to say, but I think we're just going to jump right in. Thanks so much, Lisa, for being on the podcast.

Lisa Loeb: [00:01:32] Thank you so much. I appreciate it. Maybe some the listeners actually were raised on my children's music and, now, they're grownups.

Andy Molinsky: [00:01:38] There you go. That would be awesome.

Lisa Loeb: [00:01:40] Yes,

Andy Molinsky: [00:01:40] If that's the case, please tweet at us or send us a note on Facebook or LinkedIn. We would love to hear that. So, tell us a bit. I mean, I gave you a little formal bio, but tell us a bit—tell us what you do now, and maybe even just a glimpse into, I don't know, the day in the life, day in the—a glimpse into your week. Well, what's it like to be you right now? What's your work life like?

Lisa Loeb: [00:02:00] Well, mostly, my main focuses lately, over the last year, I would say, are continuing to make children's music, which means I either have just finished making a record. My most recent kids record was called Lullaby Girl. I've made many, many kids' records. The last three have been exclusive on Amazon. So, you can only get them on Amazon, and they've been my partner. I made a nursery rhymes record for them, which I normally write original music for kids, but I realized the value of classic nursery rhymes through some experience. And I did a nursery rhymes record.

Lisa Loeb: [00:02:33] I did a record called Feel What You Feel, which is a variety of mostly original songs that was inspired by something when I was a kid called Free to Be You and Me, which was a collection of songs centered around values, and lessons, and stories that were important to the people who made them. And that record, Feel What You Feel, of mine won a Grammy, which was really cool.

Lisa Loeb: [00:02:52] And then, the record after that I made was called Lullaby Girl, which was supposed to be baby lullabies that ended up being a collection of songs from a bunch of different generations that appealed to me from the '30s, '40s, '50s, '60s, '70s, '80s, and today. We wrote a couple of original songs, but there's songs like Fleetwood Mac, Don't Stop Thinking About Tomorrow, the song The Sun Will Come Out Tomorrow from the musical Annie, old standards like Dream A Little Dream, and an old Disney song, A Dream is a Wish Your Heart Makes, but just a bunch of different songs recorded with a jazz band. So, I usually have a kids' record that I have just finished making, which I made those fairly recently, along with videos that accompany each song, which is extremely involved and time consuming. But anyway, so, I do that.

Lisa Loeb: [00:03:38] I also do—I'm a voiceover artist, which means I do a lot of auditions and also do the work of putting my voice—I'm in certain animated TV shows like Jake and the Neverland Pirates. I also do the voice of certain—of a bunch of TV commercials, including Alfa Romeo. I recently did a big campaign for them for a few years. I've done the voice of Chili's. I've been the voice of Bounty. So, that involves most of the auditioning and some work in the studio actually recording the jobs.

Lisa Loeb: [00:04:06] And then, also, I do have an eyewear line. I actually have a main eyewear designer. I, myself, am not a designer, but we do work between their design firm and my kitchen table where we look at all the materials and the designs, and I collaborate with them on making notes on what works and what does not work with my brand. The eyewear line also involves meetings out of town with companies like Costco, who covers my—who sells my eyewear line, as well as other eyewear-specific meetings because mom and pop ophthalmologist and optician offices sell my eyewear line. The eyewear line also involves a lot of things like photo shoots, approving copy for websites, advertising, and social media, creating campaigns, which is similar to my record business, but it's a different business.

Lisa Loeb: [00:04:54] And then, also, most recently, I just finished making a grown up record, which I haven't done in a while. And that entails a lot of songwriting sessions, recording sessions, mixed sessions, mastering sessions, a lot of time in the studio, a lot of time in a small room with other writers or by myself.

Lisa Loeb: [00:05:10] And then, I also tour. Like I just got back last week from a tour of Japan where the album already just came out. And I tour around the United States as well, doing regular concerts. You might go see at a theater or a like a dinner place where you eat and watch concerts, or I play special events. Like this weekend, I'm doing a fundraiser. Neil Young has a son with autism. And for years, he's been doing concerts to raise money for autism awareness and a special school.

Lisa Loeb: [00:05:39] And this year, they combined with another fundraiser, which is Lou Adler, who's that famous music producer who produced The Mamas & the Papas, and a bunch of [folks] in the 60s, like The Doors, as well as making a lot of films about rock, stuff like Woodstock. Lou Adler is involved in a summer camp called The Painted Turtle that Paul Newman, a famous actor, started. And this is a summer camp that specifically works with kids who've got different illnesses, and they're able just to provide the support, and doctors, and nurses, and things. So, these kids can go to camp for a week at a time and enjoy a summer camp experience. So, there's a big fundraiser this weekend with Neil Young, Norah Jones, Father John Misty, me. And so, I'm going away this weekend to do that.

Lisa Loeb: [00:06:20] But there's—in a couple weekends, I'm doing a big fundraiser for animals that my friend, who's a voiceover artist put together, Rachel McFarlane and her brother, Seth McFarlane. So, there's a lot of special events, as well as concerts. And that's just part of my business work.

Lisa Loeb: [00:06:37] So, mostly, I focus on making a record, ongoing voiceover work, ongoing eyewear design, as well as a bunch of other things in entertainment. For example, right now, I'm in the middle of creating about four different kids shows that we're going out and pitching to different TV networks here in Los Angeles from Disney to Nickelodeon. And these are things that might or might not happen, but it's something that I care about, and that we do. 

Lisa Loeb: [00:07:03] And things like with my new record. I actually go and play the record for different music supervisors who might use the music in film, or TV, or commercials if we're lucky because, as you probably know, if you're listening, a lot of the way that you find out about music, sometimes, through Spotify and playlists, but also through watching TV, and movies, and hearing music play in the background. But that's just sort of like a portion of what I do.

Lisa Loeb: [00:07:27] And my daily life, it's very—just like that whole long laundry list of things, which is partially what I do, my days look like that as well. They reflect that I have a weekly meeting with one of my big business collaborators and managers every week, as well as lots of phone meetings, a lot of in-person meetings with different entertainment companies for different reasons. I like to work out, so I try to work out every day. I do strength training twice a week, as well as a lot of walking, and some dancing.

Lisa Loeb: [00:07:56] And I also have two kids. So, my life works around the structure of their schedule as well. So, it's—every day is different. I always wake up, and have, and make breakfast, and have a lot of coffee in the morning, which is also something I do. I have a blend of coffee beans that we sell through a company called Coffee Fool in Minneapolis to help raise money for my summer camp foundation that sends kids to summer camp called the Camp Lisa Foundation.

Lisa Loeb: [00:08:23] But anyway, I wake up every morning with the kids, get them off to school, and then the day begins, and then the day starts to end. Then, I start picking up the kids from school and finishing up on my auditions, and meetings, and this, and that, and continue on with the family life interspersed with too many phone meetings and checking emails to follow up on things that are ongoing and have a million details.

Andy Molinsky: [00:08:47] Wow! Okay. And so, I imagine that for our listeners who are college age or right after college age, you have this all figured out in college, right?

Lisa Loeb: [00:08:56] I actually had been a person, ever since I was a kid—it's funny, I recently went through boxes and boxes of my schoolwork ever since I was like in kindergarten all the way through school. My parents kept all that stuff. And I've always been a very busy bee. Like I always find myself—in fact, I found a report card where the grade wasn't perfect. It was probably like a B, but the English teacher said, "I would rather have this Lisa Loeb making a B with all of your other interests," which at the time were—I was in an independent film senior year of high school. I was president of Student Council. I was playing in a cover band. I was the music program director for the Boys Radio Station. I was at a girls' school. I was a DJ at the boys' radio station. I DJ'd parties. I was in the play taking three or four AP classes, and the teacher appreciated that. He said, "I'd rather see this Lisa Loeb making a B than a Lisa Loeb who has no other interest than making an A."

Lisa Loeb: [00:09:50] So, I've always been a busy person with lots on my plate. But I will say, if you're recently graduating—if you're graduating from college or a recent grad, take advantage of your time. Really, this is the time. Before you have serious relationships, and even if you are in a serious relationship, take advantage of your time. Take trips, explore things, take classes, take classes online. Like really take advantage of that time. Have fun, enjoy yourself, explore, try to find time to step back and reflect on what you want to have your life look like, and do, and see, and meet as many people as you can now because once you start getting locked in to professions and jobs or work your ass off at your job, feel free to work all night. Feel free to like really, really work hard and do a lot now because it will really pay off later, I think, if you're getting enough sleep.

Andy Molinsky: [00:10:50] So, that's excellent advice. And it's interesting, the sort of origins of your busy-beeness. So, I actually want to rewind to college for a second. So, I know you went to Brown for college because truth be told, we were in the same class at Brown. So, that's how I knew you. And I know, also, from that experience that Brown, when we were at Brown, there was no internet to speak of. There was no email. I imagine that you hadn't necessarily envisioned having an eyewear brand, or a blend of coffee beans, or working with business managers, entertainment companies, and so on. I'd love just to hear a little bit about what college was like for you, how you transitioned from there to sort of the early days of your career.

Lisa Loeb: [00:11:38] When I was in college, I majored in—like the thing that I was supposed to be studying was Comparative Literature and Spanish Literature because I love Spanish. I would say, though, the majority of my time was spent playing music, writing music, acting in plays. And even towards the end of college, traveling to New York City and other places to play gigs and to record my own music with my friend Liz Mitchell. We have a group called Liz and Lisa. I probably could have benefited in a gap year and sort of thought about what do I actually want to study because college was, kind of, for me, ended up being the time period. I sort of thought I might be an actress when I grew up, which is also something that I do. I'm acting in TV shows and things like that. But I thought that was going to be my primary thing. 

Lisa Loeb: [00:12:20] My music ended up being my primary thing during college. And I think having some success in college, Brown University was a unique place because the friends and people who went to college there was such a great support system, and we always had packed shows, and people came to see us play. But it was also a place where I was able to take music classes with people that I really respected as musicians that I looked up to, and that I felt like I had a high standard to live up to as a musician, as a songwriter.

Lisa Loeb: [00:12:47] So, I had support, and I also had challenge in a good way. And so, I felt like I was already being a professional musician while I was in college. My friend and I were manufacturing tapes that we were selling. We were already travelling out of town to New York City to play in places that singer songwriters play when they're on their way to becoming professional musicians. We were already meeting music business people.

Lisa Loeb: [00:13:11] So, I think, for me, the transition from what I was doing in college, I just—I don't know if I was able to admit it completely to myself because I think in the eyes of my parents, what I wanted to do when I grew up wasn't like a real job. It was a hobby. But I think that being said, in a practical way, I was actually already doing that thing that I wanted to do when I grew up.

Lisa Loeb: [00:13:34] And so, I—it was a very grassroots progression. I knew from people I—I already was meeting people in the music industry and getting advice, which I think is a big deal to find people in your industry, no matter who they are. I found people in the music industry, and they basically gave me advice, make sure—in a grassroots way, make sure you're collecting the addresses of the people who are coming to your concerts, so that you can invite them to future concerts. Make sure people know that you're playing. We'd put up flyers. Now, we do social media. Now, we send people emails about concerts or texts. At the time, it was all about actual snail mail, about getting the word out, or even making phone calls to invite people to shows.

Lisa Loeb: [00:14:17] So, I think, for me, the transition had already started happening while I was in college, which I guess the equivalent would be if you have like an internship or something like that. We are already getting to sort of dip your toe into the waters of trying the thing out. What city do you want to live in? Like I moved to New York City. That was the perfect city to move into. But it wasn't uncomfortable because I already had a bunch of friends there who I knew from college, and family members, and relatives. I'm from Texas, but I knew people in New York. I had lived in New York this summer before college to go study acting. Like I had—I was inching into becoming familiar with the places and the things I needed to do as a professional musician.

Lisa Loeb: [00:14:58] And because music was taking off more than any kind of acting that I wasn't really doing, I continued to follow that step by step and do what I knew needed to be done, which is write songs, become better at my craft, which for me involved taking some guitar lessons sometimes; watching other people play music; taking voice lessons with an amazing professional voice teacher that I found, the best of the best, to take lessons with; learning how to take care of my voice, so that I could do it consistently; and tour and travel; record my own songs; develop a following; play consistently; try to connect with other musicians who are also playing consistently, and not only to learn from their experience, but also sometimes collaborate with them even on shows. We would do double build shows.

Lisa Loeb: [00:15:44] So, it was kind of like we were doing the professional thing already in college. And for me, it was a sort of—it wasn't scary. It just felt like a natural transition to move to New York City, and to continue to play music, and to find day jobs that could support what I was doing, and continue to get better at what I was doing, and making more business contacts, and going to play at South by Southwest in the big music conferences, and going to listen to people, getting as close to the profession as I could, and being in it as much as I could, always taking the next step.

Andy Molinsky: [00:16:16] It's interesting because the way that you describe it sounds super logical, and really organized, and so on. Is that—I'm just curious, is that retrospective? When you were sort of going through it day by day, especially in college, as you were starting to build your career even early on, did you find yourself sort of fumbling around about what to do? And I'm sort of drawing an analogy between—I've spoken for this podcast and listeners know that we've talked to several people who have started up real significant businesses in college. And in some ways, that's a nice analogy to what you're talking about. But they talk about sort of like one step forward, two steps back, fumbling around, really sort of getting their sea legs. Was it like that for you or was it—or did it just sort of fall into place?

Lisa Loeb: [00:17:07] It didn't fall into place. I mean, it was definitely—you can't control people's reactions. So, when my friend Liz and I, we had our group in college, we literally went into ANR person who—back in the early '90s to be a professional musician, at least, in our opinion, you needed to get a record deal. You get a record deal, someone pays you, you make a record.

Lisa Loeb: [00:17:26] I had entrepreneurial record industry people that I was close to, one in particular who would often pick his brain. He would say, "You need to start your own label and put your own record out," but I knew what it took to put a record because I've done it in college. Like I knew that it took making artwork, putting money behind, being in a studio, advertising, marketing. Now, again, you have social media and all these things, making your own videos, making a lot of different elements that I realized, "You know what, I'd rather give some of that money away and have collaborators who are record company people who are more experienced, who can help me with this."

Lisa Loeb: [00:18:02] Now, in retrospect, with that, I will say, often, I've come across situations where just because they're in a professional business doesn't mean they know what they're doing. And that happens time and time again. And yeah, actually, maybe in retrospect, it would have been better to spend that time and energy doing it more. I mean, I did a ton of stuff myself, but even doing more myself and even more without corporate collaboration because it would have been—

Lisa Loeb: [00:18:27] To really work with the record label or something, they might be interested for the first couple weeks, but then, they might not be interested anymore. But as a musician, it's your business. You're like, "Well, we're not done yet. We haven't even started yet." So, I think it was just so—I don't know. It's just so natural, the steps of what you need to do. Like you make songs and then you need to share them. So, you have to record them. And then, you have to get them out there, so you have to manufacture them.

Lisa Loeb: [00:18:52] Maybe here and there. I wished, "OH, I wish I hadn't spent so much money on this or that," or "I wish I had been more careful with the photographs that we chose," because I don't know if we presented ourselves exactly the way I wanted to at the time. But in general, it just was the natural—it just felt like the natural steps moving forward.

Lisa Loeb: [00:19:11] Others things I would I would say in retrospect, and this would be a little bit later in my career after I was already signed with the record label, back in the '90s, it was important to be focused. So, if you're a musician, that's what you are. You aren't a musician, and you also do some acting, and you also teach school, and you also—or you're a computer programmer. Like you really needed to do one thing or you seemed—you didn't seem like a renaissance person, you seemed like a dilettante. So, it's really important, I felt, to be taken seriously as a musician. You don't do a bunch of other stuff. You're a musician. And if you have other interests, you don't really show those.

Lisa Loeb: [00:19:46] Now, things have completely changed. If you're a musician, you want people to know that your favorite hobby is crossword puzzles, and that you like to eat peanut butter and jelly everyday for breakfast because you get to connect with your fans and your people who also might be interested in those things. And nowadays, being a musician is—can be a brand. A lot of people grow their businesses as an entertainer by opening themselves up to people. And also, people don't look down upon you if you are interested in designing clothes also or having an eyewear line, Like back in the day that would have been selling out. Nowadays, you're a good business person.

Lisa Loeb: [00:20:22] So, in retrospect, I am upset that I kind of followed those rules because I did have so many interests, and ideas, and things that were important to me, and things that I loved that I felt like might make me seem not serious about my music if I were to follow other interests or do other things. But again, maybe it was just the time. I don't know.

Andy Molinsky: [00:20:46] So, the—all the things that you do now from the products, to the children's music, to the festivals, to all the stuff, that's just not riding with the times. That's actually sort of being your true authentic self, it sounds like.

Lisa Loeb: [00:21:05] Exactly. I get to do what I want to do, follow things that I'm interested in, say yes to the things I want to say yes to. I get to do whatever I want without feeling like I'm all over the place. And so, it's really exciting. It's cool to be able to do so many different things.

Lisa Loeb: [00:21:22] And I think, also, when I was in college, like in retrospect, I probably should have taken a year off, which I didn't because I felt like, "Oh, the band is going really well. And this is going so well. I don't want to ruin the momentum," but if probably for college's sake, it would have been good to take a break and say, "Well, what do I actually want to study? Like, what do I actually want to spend my time doing?" But I was already so busy, like acting, and playing, and making music that I didn't take a break. I didn't want to ruin that momentum.

Lisa Loeb: [00:21:48] But I think, also, that's important. No matter where you are in your career, always to find time to reflect. And whether you need to do it with a book, like I had a great book that I love by Laurence Boldt, B-O-L-D-T. I think it's called Finding the Work You Love. He's a guy who works, I think, more with corporate people. And he also has a very Zen element to him. But he has a great book that might be kind of like, What Color is Your Parachute? But it's a shorter book and it has a lot of questions and answers, which are great, especially when you're all over the place in your mind, and in your work, and in your schedule to center you.

Lisa Loeb: [00:22:22] But to have a moment to reflect and say, "What are my values? Like, what's important to me? What do I really want to be when I grow up?" To find a book, or a coach, or a person to be able to structure that kind of thinking to take a step back from what you're doing, which I think a year off of college can do to give you a minute to say, "Wait, wait, wait, wait. what am I doing? Am I still where I think I want to go? Am I going the direction I want to go? Is this really what I want to do?" I think it's really important, no matter how old you are, at any time, especially if you're putting a lot of energy into something to take a step and to really be introspective, take a look, spend some time thinking about this stuff.

Andy Molinsky: [00:23:01] And was college for you—was there anything that sort of just—I know you took music lessons, and you had—it was almost like an incredible kind of a training ground for becoming a professional musician. And you did some acting and so on. And sounds like you took some complex classes and learned Spanish or continued with your Spanish. Was there anything particular that kind of stuck with you from college? I know it's been a while. I think we have a big reunion coming.

Lisa Loeb: [00:23:30] I think, I mean, for me, again, I wish I had had a more academic experience there, but I was a little burnt out in high school, honestly. I wish I had taken Psychology classes, but my freshman roommate didn't like Psych 1, so I was like, "I won't take Psych 1 either," which is funny because I actually went back to grad school for Psychology briefly at NYU after college because it was so awesome. And I'm like, "OH, what was I thinking?"

Lisa Loeb: [00:23:52] But anyway, the things that did stick with me in college were my friends. I mean—and for me, it was really mostly friendships and playing music. And I mean, really, also, I came from Dallas, Texas in the 1980s, which was a very conservative place. I felt like a real outsider. I had a lot of friends, and I always, kind of, felt like an outsider and like this artsy person. And it was a little weird.

Lisa Loeb: [00:24:16] But when I got to college, and it might be the East Coast, as well as going to Brown University specifically, I was like, "Oh my gosh, these are my people." And even the people who weren't my people were my people. And I felt like myself for the first time ever. And it was like to have that experience socially and intellectually, like people who were really interested in things, and they were football players who were poets, and musicians who were the Poli Sci people. It was just like this amazing social situation for me that blew my mind. It was like amazing for me, and my confidence, and feeling like a human, and feeling like I fit in with others, but still feel like an individual. For me, that's what I got from college.

Lisa Loeb: [00:25:00] The other thing I will say I got from college is I took—from my Comp Lit major, I took a Japanese poetry class from Professor Viswanathan, and I went in after we graduated to pick up my final exam or whatever. And I wanted to pick it up. And she's like, "Sit down." And I'm like, "Oh, well, but I just graduated." She's like, "Well, no, sit down. Let's talk about your paper." And I was like, "Oh, it's not over." 

Lisa Loeb: [00:25:29] It's, definitely, life is not about the grades, and when things are over. And it's always happening. It's not about these constructs of college and classes in the beginning, in the end. Your life, as much as you can make of it, should be filled with passion, and interest, and continuing curiosity, and becoming better, and being a better writer, and student, and communicator. It's not over when the bell rings.

Andy Molinsky: [00:25:56] Yeah. No, that's great advice. And I was picturing that meeting with a professor. Let me just ask you one last question. You seem like a pretty confident person, but you've done a lot of things, and you've stretched outside your comfort zone, it sounds like a lot of ways throughout your career, the way you describe it. Have you ever felt kind of over your head, maybe even some people call the impostor syndrome?

Lisa Loeb: [00:26:27] Oh yeah.

Andy Molinsky: [00:26:27] And if you have, tell us a little bit about it, and how you've handled that.

Lisa Loeb: [00:26:30] I feel—I definitely have had that many, many times. And I think, sometimes, I think the best way to do it is just to take a step back. Whenever I feel like, "I shouldn't be doing this. That person is so much better than me. How come that person is more successful? Why didn't I do this? How come I didn't do that? I should be able to do this," or "I should be able to look like that," or "I should be able to get more followers on Instagram," and I do definitely get over my head when it comes to social media. And I think a lot of people do. It's funny.

Lisa Loeb: [00:26:57] So, twofold. There's two answers. One is when I start feeling over my head about technical things like, "How can I get more followers? And how do you crack the code of YouTube? And how am I supposed to do this?" I look for experts. I look for people who have more experience than I do, either by listening to their podcasts, by reaching out to friends and colleagues directly saying, "I think you might have more experience in this than I do. Can you tell me what you know?" Sometimes, I find out they don't know either. It's just things are happening. People don't know.

Lisa Loeb: [00:27:29] But I think it's—but I like having some kind of action plan. So, I try to reach out to people. I talk to people all the time. And if there's somebody who might have more experience than I do, anything that's just overwhelming me, to get more information to see if I can crack the code and logically figure out what steps I can take to go in the direction I want to go in.

Lisa Loeb: [00:27:47] But then, on the psychological side, I got great advice from my rabbi. I know he's—this rabbi named Rabbi Mordecai Finley. And he is also very interested in cognitive behavioral therapy. And there's a whole thing about taking a step back and looking at things the way that they are. In fact, I had an album called The Way It Really Is because it's so important to be able to take a look at the way things are, and to take a step back, and say, "Wait a minute."

Lisa Loeb: [00:28:12] Like I'm about to play a concert, and I'm like, "Oh, God, what if I'm not good enough? What if they don't like me? What if that person is such a more amazing singer than I am?" I'd take a step back, and I'm like, "Wait a minute. This other singer over here isn't a great singer, but people really enjoy them. It's fine. There's a range of singing talent that is acceptable in this profession. You're fine."

Lisa Loeb: [00:28:30] Or the rabbi says, "You think about your past experience." I'm like, "Well, actually, maybe I shouldn't be nervous because every time I play, it turns out to be pretty good." Like maybe once or twice. I did a concert where I really felt like, "Wow, that wasn't really—I didn't really connect," but for the most part in the thousands of concerts I've played, it was good, and people enjoyed it. Like you take a step back and you say, like, "What's the actual situation here?" And, "I don't feel like a musician, why should I be doing this?" I'm like, "But you are. You play concerts."

Lisa Loeb: [00:29:04] I take a step back and I'm like, "Wait, but I am. I play concerts. I write songs. This is something I enjoy doing." And then, you're able to, like, refocus and see that like, "Oh, actually, it's okay." And a lot of people feel, sometimes, insecure. That's a normal thing. You're an artist. So, to be able to just put in perspective and understand that a lot of people go through the same thing. It's okay.

Andy Molinsky: [00:29:29] Yeah, and I think that, actually, hearing that from you will, hopefully, be useful for people listening to this to normalize their feelings, stepping into a job for the first time, giving a presentation for the first time. I don't know what-

Lisa Loeb: [00:29:42] I will say for that kind of stuff too, I remember, once, I had to perform in front of the entire Universal Music Group from—the entire world. It was like a thousand people I had to perform in front of. And I'd just been signed to my major label deal. And my friend's mom, who is in entertainment, she said, "Walk out there like you're a star." And I was like, it's kind of corny, but I will say, like, you really have to act as if you were supposed to be there to make your presentation. You were supposed to be there to have that job. You need to do your best, and you need to act like you have that job, because people really do respond to basic etiquette and kindness, and people feeling confident in their skin.

Andy Molinsky: [00:30:22] But also it sounds, like you mentioned earlier, some degree of vulnerability too, right?

Lisa Loeb: [00:30:29] Yeah, yeah. And you should have your feelings, and tell your best friend or your mom on the way to work, or write it in your little journal and diary, but when you get there, you need to think about if you saw a movie, and this was the character that that actor is playing, the part of that person has to get up and make a confident presentation to do that, act as if. That is a really strong tool to be able to get a hold of. Don't be a shoe gazer. Don't look at your shoes. Communicate with others. Step it up. Do it. Get it together. Act like you have some Texas counselor, camp counselor saying, "All right, let's go. Let's do it." It's time to just like take that big step.

Lisa Loeb: [00:31:09] And I literally have to say that myself, I was a very shy person growing up. And I got to the point where I was just like I felt like I was literally counting to three in my head, like, "Okay, one, two, three. Okay, go. Talk to the person." And now, I'm like a weird person who talks to random people in elevators. But just—it's like when you're on a high dive in that moment of like, "Oh, God, I don't know if I can do this," and you just do it.

Andy Molinsky: [00:31:31] Yeah. Well, this has been great, Lisa. Thanks so much for doing this. Really appreciate it. And really some great wisdom. And I really think, actually, a lot of what you said is so relevant for people, whether they're musicians, aspiring musicians, or people who just simply listen to music, and have other career goals. So, I really appreciate it. And how can people find you - speaking of the internet - if they're interested in checking out your music or learning more about you?"

Lisa Loeb: [00:31:57] You can find me at my website, lisaloeb.com, L-O-E-B as in boy. You can find me on Twitter, @lisaloeb. You can find me on Instagram, @lisaloeb. The Official Lisa Loeb on Facebook. And I'm on Pinterest. And also, I do communicate with people if they're out there. We do look at all the messages and other things like that. And then, my music is on Spotify. It's on all the places you find music, as well as the exclusive records on Amazon and my YouTube channel. So, I'm there.

Andy Molinsky: [00:32:28] You're not hard to find.

Lisa Loeb: [00:32:32] No, not hard to find.

Andy Molinsky: [00:32:32] All right. Thank you so much for coming on.

Lisa Loeb: [00:32:35] Thank you.

Andy Molinsky: [00:32:38] Thank you for listening to From the Dorm Room to the Board Room. If you're interested in learning more about the work that I do in helping people step outside their comfort zones and transition successfully into the professional world, please visit my website, www.andymolinksy.com. That's A-N-D-Y-M-O-L-I-N-S-K-Y dot com. And also, feel free to email me directly at andy@andymolinsky.com with any feedback or ideas for guests for future podcasts.

Andy Molinsky: [00:33:09] This podcast is brought to you by Brandeis University's International Business School. By teaching rigorous Business, Finance, and Economics, connecting students to best practices, and immersing them in international experiences, Brandeis International Business School prepares exceptional individuals from around the globe to become principled professionals in companies and public institutions worldwide. Thank you so much for listening.