[A Zoom screen with the three panelists and BTW Peer Educators Danielle Wright and Nathalie Vieux-Gresham, who are in the same room. ]
Danielle Wright: All right. And for our second question, we have, "what has been the impact of legalization on communities of color?" I think, Will, you might be able to answer this question.
[BTW Peer Educators leave the Zoom screen.]
Will Jones III: Yeah. And I, I will say, I probably bring a different perspective than most people on this issue. That's, that's the feedback I get a lot, but I'm just gonna try to briefly tell you how I got to where I am on this issue, and then some of the data that we're seeing from states that have gone down this road. But I think, you know, most of us are aware with I think the primary concerns that people have, regarding social justice and marijuana policy, is the disproportionate targeting of people of color by our marijuana laws. In history that we've had with prohibition, that's targeted, vastly disproportionately targeted people of color for marijuana use, when across demographics uses, you know, virtually the same, there's some differences but more or less it's about the same. And that led to I think the ACLU put out a report a couple of years ago I think maybe four, you're four to, depending on what state you are, but nationally, it was like four times more likely to be arrested for marijuana use if you're black than if you're white. In DC, where I lived, it was, I think, six to eight times more likely to be arrested for marijuana use if you're black than if you're white. And so huge disparities in how marijuana laws were enforced. And that led, I believe, many people to push for legalization in order to address this disparity, and, you know, saddling people with unnecessary arrest records for you know, substance use. And so that's, I think how we got to where we are. And I think the motivation for a lot of people that, that push for legalization. I began working on this in 2014 in DC, and I heard that we should regulate marijuana like alcohol. And that actually, though, concerned me. I'm going to see if I can do this. I like zoom because I can do a few tricks that I can't do in real life. But there we go.
[Will Jones III changes his Zoom background to a photograph of him carrying his daughter into a convenient store plastered with alcohol advertisements.]
Will Jones III: I think you can see that. This is the virtual breakdown of like this "a picture's worth a thousand words." And you can kind of, let me go to this side. That's me and my daughter. And when I started working on this issue in DC, I told people this all the time, when I walked out the front door of my house in any direction the first door I would get to is a liquor store I could go a little bit farther and I get to a convenience store, but those stores would be. actually what you see behind me is, it's not a liquor store, it's actually convenience store. And so, and I had just taken her in there to get some ice cream. It was a hot summer, this past summer, a hot summer day. And so the reality is that when I heard "regulate marijuana like alcohol," that actually concerned me because I hate what we've done and what we've allowed with alcohol that this is still the reality in communities, like mine in 2021, this massive disproportionate targeting of disadvantaged communities by alcohol and tobacco companies. And so we've seen over the past few years, and increasingly this year major alcohol and tobacco companies, Altria, the mother company of Marlboro, has invested billions of dollars in the cannabis industry. They are lobbying for it at the federal and state level. They successfully just finished their efforts in Virginia. And so that is one influence that I'm very wary of when it comes to marijuana legalization and looking at some early data that came out of Denver, Colorado. We saw things like, there's one pot shot for every 47 residents in communities of color in Denver, Colorado. More pot shops than Starbucks and McDonald's combined. So I tell people, imagine you're walking past the McDonald's or a Starbucks, add some more and that's the level of saturation that we're talking about. And so that's one aspect of the impact of legalization that I don't think gets talked about as much. And I like to bring that up when I'm talking on this issue. One thing that I think that we can all agree with, and I'm going to end it, I guess, with this thought is that I think one thing that there is unity about is removal of criminal penalties for personal possession use of marijuana. I don't think that there is really any, in terms of public policy, that's not helpful to the individual or to a community, to arrest or incarcerate someone because they've been using a substance like, like marijuana and you know, this conversation's about marijuana, but we can also include other substances in that as well, I think. Also, decriminal, sorry, expungements is another thing that often gets conflated with legalization as well as re-sentencing. And I think it's extremely important, and I like what that poll question that started out with, it detailed those different options. So legalization, decriminalization, medical marijuana and those, it's very important, I think, that we don't conflate those things. And so the organization that I work for, we support decriminalization, but we don't support commercialization because of, again some of the things that you see behind me, the influence that we're seeing from big tobacco and alcohol in the industry and the impact that we're concerned that that's going to have on vulnerable communities that are already targeted by these, by these companies. So that's my perspective on it.
[BTW Peer Educator Catherine Romero enters the Zoom screen.]
Tom Fontana: Yeah. I'll just chat, and like, I think people rightly understand that the question was what's the maybe the impact of legalization on communities of color. We understand a little bit better about the impact of criminalization and criminal code. We talk about the war on drugs and the damage that it's done and people rightly critique that. But I think it wasn't so much that we try to enforce our laws that was a problem, it's that when we have individual people with racism, and a system with racism, you then enact it in a terrible way. And so while we're right to critique that, the idea that legalization, somehow we don't still have systemic racism, that this money is going to flow to the right places. It's very optimistic. And I don't know that we are right to do that and just think "yeah, it's going to work out great," now that there's more money in the system. So I appreciate the work Will does. And he didn't, I don't know if he's given a plug to his to his "Enough" campaign that he runs and just talked of. I think it's really worth what he's putting out there on some of his organization's important perspective.
Catherine Romero: Thank you
Will Jones III: Tom, actually, you brought up something, one thing, two things that you mentioned that are talked about a lot is reinvesting in communities harmed by the war on drugs and an equity within the industry. I think those are great goals just to keep, you know the movement very accountable and we have to be real and transparent about what's happening nationally. It's still 4% African Americans that have ownership in the cannabis industry. And in terms of reinvesting in communities harmed by the war on drugs, again, that's a great concept. Coming from my perspective we have kind of heard those promises before with other things. And so we need to really track on a state by state basis. What's actually happening? Are these promises being upheld? Illinois, for example, had what was labeled one of the most equity-centered legalization laws that was passed a couple of years ago, and still in Chicago, there's not a single minority-owned cannabis business. And so I think Tom's exactly right that thinking that the systemic issues of injustice that we have in our country are not going to be addressed because we, you know, created multi-billion dollar industry. And even when we look at arrests and incarceration rates, places like Colorado, Washington DC, California, overall arrested, African Americans have not decreased. There has been a big drop in marijuana-related arrests, but overall arrests have remained the same or actually increased. And that's important to know that figure because for many, legalization, we need to keep this in mind, does not hold individuals or institutions accountable for how they enforce the law. And so for those that enforced the law with bias and with prejudice, they still find opportunities to do that. And unfortunately, that's why we see many states that have not seen their overall arrests of African Americans or other minorities changed after legalization, but some arrests related to marijuana have decreased, so that's another thing.