Sophie Brill Weitz ’21 Capstone Podcast

CAST minor Sophie Brill Weitz '21 produced a podcast as her capstone project. “Family Remembrance: Marking Lives Lived with Stumbling Stones” is an edited collection of interviews that Sophie conducted with her grandfather, mother and other relatives related to the family’s wish to have stolpersteine (stumbling stones) placed at the last voluntary residence, before the Holocaust, of her grandfather and his family in Belgrade, Serbia. (Stolpersteine are commemorative brass plaques placed in the pavement in front of the last known residence of choice of victims and survivors of the Holocaust.) What does it mean to remember, and to be remembered, Sophie and her family ask.


Haim Brill 00:01
I remember the bombing, the initial bombing before the Germans moved in on the ground. I remember
being hiding from those bombs in a – now we would call it shelter, but basically it was a basement. I
was less than three years old.

Sophie Brill Weitz (narration) 00:20
That's my grandfather, Haim Brill, recounting his experience during Nazi occupation in Belgrade,
Serbia, what was Yugoslavia at the time. My name is Sophie Brill Weitz. And I've heard this story
before. Since I was young, I've known bits and pieces of my grandfather's experience of surviving
during the Holocaust as a Jewish child. But I still had a lot of questions. So I decided to talk with various
family members across generations and nationalities to gain a better understanding of my family's
history. And what it means to remember, my mom Julie Brill has been researching this history as part of
her own quest to understand and she's in the process of writing a book. She fills in some of the

Julie Brill 01:02
Papa's earliest memories of a bombing, and that's the bombing of Belgrade in April 1941. You know, it
was a vicious bombing by the Nazis. They had originally thought that you Yugoslavia would just kind of
bow down to them. In fact, Yugoslavia signed a pact and then the Yugoslavian people revolted and
refused to ally themselves with the Nazis.

Sophie Brill Weitz (narration) 01:25
I talked to my cousin, Nikola, who's from Belgrade. And he described that protest too.

Nikola 01:29
There was a great sentence that they were like saying, during the demonstration, that goes [speaking
Serbian], better to die than to be enslaved.

Julie Brill 01:42
There was this brutal three-day bombing of civilians as a result. And a lot of the city was destroyed. A
lot of Dorćol, the Jewish community, was destroyed. And that was that was the beginning of the war.
And then I think things moved really quickly in Serbia, which is unusual. So it happened very early and
things happened very quickly.

Haim Brill 02:03
I remember a lot of details, the German presence and the fear that people had. So I had the same fear
without necessarily knowing what is the fear about or from. Because they were pretty brutal.

Julie Brill 02:20
Papa remembers leaving the city with his mother and his cousins, his aunt. And they were walking out
along the railroad tracks. And what they were doing was what a lot of civilians were doing, they were
just trying to get out of this bombed out city, that the Nazis were coming into, that didn't have a
functioning sewer system that in a lot of places, the buildings were just destroyed, there was, you know,
dead people that were lying in the streets. So they were just trying to get out. And they went to a village
where Papa's grandfather owned land. And then they went back to Dorćol. His father was part of the
registration, they were registering all the Jewish men between 16 and 60 years old, and he was doing
slave labor, but coming home at night. So he would go in the morning, he had to report and we actually
have paperwork, he was digging sewers. And then he would come home at night. And then at some
point, probably in August, he didn't come home. And that was when the Nazis were starting to keep
these Jewish men, these slave laborers, in a camp right in the city.

And I remember like hearing that story from Papa as a kid, and trying to understand because when you
hear the stories, in Hebrew school, or you read books, or whatever, you know, they're talking about
trains and these these camps that, you know. And Papa's story was, you know, the camp was right in the
middle of the city, there were no trains. His mother would go and bring his father food. It just didn't fit
into any story that you could read about. But that is the Serbian story. The camps were in the city where
everybody could see them. And there was some degree of normal life kind of going on around that. And
then one day, my grandmother went to bring her husband food and the gates of the camp were open and
it was empty. He was probably shot the day that they took him out. In that what the Germans were doing
was, for every soldier that was killed by the partisans, they would kill 100 civilians, by firing squad.
And, you know, Jews and Roma were the first ones that they were picking out of the pool, although
certainly Serbs were murdered that way, as well. And then they were buried, where they were killed.
And then after that, somehow Papa with his mother and his sister got out of the city, although not far,
and they were living on a farm, that his grandmother may or may not have owned. A horse farm. And
that's where they were for the rest of the war. Papa remembers the bombing that the Allies did at the end.
Belgrade's the only city that got bombed like the enemy twice. It was bombed by the Nazis and then
bombed by the allies. And then liberated by the partisans, by Tito, after the war. Partisans were the
resistance fighters who were fighting the occupation, fighting the Nazis.

Sophie Brill Weitz 05:10
Our family story suggests that in Serbia, women and children were spared. But that's not actually true.

Julie Brill 05:18
Right. So they were treated differently. So the men were doing slave labor through – starting in April of
41 through sort of the end of the year. And then women and children and elderly men reported to camp
that was just across the river, what's now new Belgrade, had been an old fairgrounds, and they died


Sophie Brill Weitz (narration) 05:42
The more you know about the history, the more improbable It seems that my grandfather and his mother
and sister survived. The question of survival is one I've thought about a lot. But I was surprised to hear
my grandfather bring it up.

Haim Brill 05:57
There is a question that comes up in people's minds either they verbalize it or not. And it's in my mind as
well. How does somebody survive in a in such a treacherous times? When so many died. And that's one
of the things that generates interest in many people's mind. How does that happen? And it's the same
thing in my mind. And even if you take more extreme cases, more than my case, people that were in
major concentration camps, how did they survive? How did anybody survive? When so many just
perished? And they survive? So this question is how, okay, and it's hard to explain how. Some, some
things have happened that can be talked about, that made a difference. But still, it's like walking in a
field – minefield – and getting on the other end. So that's the source of many interests. Like if nobody
survived them, they said, okay, that's what happened in that town or something. But how some people
survive not, not many, but enough survivals and – what did they do? or what happened to them? Or
where were they, the location? You know, what happened to my uncles? How did they survive? Totally
different story.

Sophie Brill Weitz 07:40
Yeah, it's remarkable. I mean, every every survivor story is remarkable. It's remarkable that multiple
different groups in our family separately survived.

Haim Brill 07:51
Totally different stories.

Sophie Brill Weitz (narration) 07:52
My grandfather's cousin Zil, his uncle's son, was born after the war, but knows some stories about his
father's survival.

Sophie Brill Weitz 08:00
What kind of stories did you hear? Maybe growing up what kind of stories did you hear about Serbia?

Zil 08:08
All the stories is my father's, you know, during the war. He did not talk to me about his career and
everything, you know, I know what he was doing but it was like, ordinary type of a life. So the only
stories is just like how, how hardship it was, you know, and he had to leave leave the country because of
the German invasion, and he escaped to Hungary. And he hid over there. And then he came back after
the war. He tried not to be too explicit because he lost two brothers and it was very painful for him to
relive this period, you know. He tried to maybe not really forget but he wasn't very, kind of, open about
it. So I maybe ask him questions here and there, but I should have asked me more than I did. Now. You
know, after he's no longer with us, you know, about family traits and history which I did not know
much, or still don't know. It was kind of painful to really talk about it. So he just, in brief, kind of
explain what took place.

Sophie Brill Weitz 09:16
And the story, I've just heard bits and pieces of the story, but your mom was also Jewish and and they
met, sort of, as they were both hiding their identity. How did that happen?

Zil 09:27
My father acquired some false papers from some lady that her husband died, so he took over her, and
then some other relatives gave my mother papers. They took some pictures to – as an ID. But it was
difficult for a man to be in hiding because the check men on the street if they're circumcised, you know,
it's very tricky. Not tricky, but you expose yourself, you know. Women, because they don't have this
problem, you know, they can live easier on hiding or false papers. But my father was kind of a try to be
indoor as much as possible not to be exposed because they stopped people on the street and they just
wanted to check their, you know, race. You know, if they're Jewish, they you end up your life right there
and then. But he was, he was living a good life there, you know, before the war. As much as you can
tell, you know, very simple he had a good career. He was a judge in and it felt very, you know,
important position there. Everything, everything fell apart, obviously.

Sophie Brill Weitz (narration) 10:39
Talking with my mom and later with my cousin Nikola, I learn more about what that before life might
have looked like. And I'm reminded again of how integrated the Jewish community in Belgrade was.

Sophie Brill Weitz 10:51
Could you describe a little bit the neighborhood that they lived in?

Julie Brill 10:56
Right. So it's called Dorćol, and it's referred to as the Jewish Quarter. But a lot of times when I think of a
Jewish quarter in a European city, I think of, you know, a gated something like what's in Venice, a
ghetto. And this is very much not that.

Nikola 11:10
Yeah, because we were multicultural. As you said, we are a country on the crossroads. So we were a
multicultural country from the beginning of time until now. So always, every sort of people were
welcomed, especially in Belgrade with open arms. Many people, Serbians, kept Jews in their homes
from the Nazis. So that's how even, we have Jewish community today, because of that.

Julie Brill 11:40
The Jewish community was very much integrated. There was never a wall. But it was an area where a
lot of Jews, including people from our family lived and worked. And when you go there now, you can
see that it was once a Jewish community. The only remaining temple that's active in Serbia is there. And
the Jewish community center for Serbia is there and there's some Hebrew writing on some of the streets.
But there's really no Jewish people who live there anymore. So it's kind of a Jewish neighborhood
without any Jews

Nikola 12:13
one of the most tragic things that Nazis managed to do is to make Belgrade a Judenfrei city. They say
that there was no more Jews in it 1942.

Julie Brill 12:27
So it's really just a tiny Jewish community that's left and most of the people who live there aren't Jewish,
don't descend from Jewish people and my feelings standing on the street, they don't really even know
what's there, or what was there.

Sophie Brill Weitz (narration) 12:40
Although Zil has no memories of Belgrade, because he went to Israel with his family after the war, as a
very young child, he still feels a connection to the culture there and what could have been

Zil 12:51
You know, knowing where my family came from, it's important.

Sophie Brill Weitz 12:55
Yeah I'm actually curious about that. Sort of how you – how much you identify with with being
Serbian? In addition to maybe your other identities of being Israeli or being American, or how you think

Zil 13:09
The language because I was exposed to it, I feel when I go to, if I were to Belgrade, for instance, I feel
more so called at home than being in Amsterdam, you know, you know, I feel like I could have been, I
could have been grown there. You know, if my parents never left I would have been part of the society
too. You know, but, you know, obviously didn't happen. But, you know, I'm part of the culture,

Nikola 13:36
In Belgrade where I told you, we had a big community of Jewish people before Second World War.
Now, I think the only 100 people that they declare that they are of Jewish ancestry or something like

Sophie Brill Weitz (narration) 13:55
Nikola isn't one of them. He isn't Jewish. We're related through our great great grandparents, but their
daughter, my grandfather's mother, converted to Judaism when she married his father, I actually only
learned about Nikola and his family a few years ago, and we met for the first time in 2018.

Sophie Brill Weitz 14:14
What was it like to return to Serbia with mom and me and Rebecca, on those two trips?

Haim Brill 14:22
I must say you have good questions, love. It was, it was quite emotional. Because it's one thing, like in
the 60s or the 90s, going by myself, it's more of a visit. When we were – when I was with my own
daughter and my grandchildren it had a very different feeling of more of a traditional thing, or walking
back in history. And not just walking back but walking with my close family.

Sophie Brill Weitz (narration) 15:01
My mom has been working to get stolpersteine, translated as stumbling stones, placed in Serbia for our
family who lived there to mark where they lived.

Julie Brill 15:11
I wasn't interested in getting the stones until I went to Serbia the first time in 2017. And part of the
reason I wanted to do it was because we went to the places there were to go. So we went to the
synagogue, and we went to the concentration camp sites, and we went to the mass murder site. And
there – it was just so easy to miss. And just so clearly in the heart of a busy city that wasn't thinking
about it at all. And that's when I really started to want the stones. Like standing on the street, where the
house the that Papa lived in, you know, I mean, it's been a long time, right, 70 years later, that house isn't
there anymore. Like there was just no sign not just of our family, but of the community that had been
there, that the stones felt really important, like, hey, everybody, you live here now, and this isn't really a
Jewish neighborhood. But this is the history of this neighborhood. It was the Jewish neighborhood for
hundreds of years. And then in the blink of an eye, it wasn't anymore.

Sophie Brill Weitz 16:10
Can you just describe a little bit, what is a stolperstein? And how did it come to exist in the first place?

Julie Brill 16:18
Yeah, so they're small brass squares that go in the street outside the last voluntary residence of
Holocaust survivors and victims. So in this case, it would be my grandparents, my dad, your grandfather
and his sister. And then he also lived there with two uncles, one of whom survived the war as a partisan
and one of whom died fighting in that war. So they would each get a stone as well. And they're not
really meant to be like a grave marker or memorial marker, they're really just meant to draw attention to
the fact that somebody, you know, lived there, this was the last place that was their home. And it
translates from the German as stumbling stones. So there are these like little stones that you could sort of
like trip over and notice, but aren't, you know, super obvious, large monuments. They're done by a
German artist who hand does each one and has laid each one in the ground throughout Europe. They're
always in the native language of the place in which they're put. And I think that now with the pandemic,
perhaps there are going to be some that go in, that he hasn't placed, but he's created all of them. And up
until now, he's placed them all as well.

Sophie Brill Weitz 17:36
Why is it meaningful for you to place these stones for our family?

Julie Brill 17:43
It's meaningful because there's so little that has been documented about our family, but about the Jewish
community in Serbia in general, and so little, that's known in the West. I feel it's important to tell all the
stories. I mean, I'm only telling our family's story, but not to kind of simplify or dumbed down the
Holocaust, that it looked like one thing, because it looked like many things. And I think it's important to
acknowledge that diversity. This is really a story that that isn't known. I mean, certainly the Holocaust
education that most people get is around the camps. And you know, everybody knows about Auschwitz,
and that's important. But more Jews actually died not in the camps. Certainly, that's the story in Eastern
Europe. And then, you know, much less has been documented in those countries that were communists
like Yugoslavia, so to finally get some names down in Belgrade, where there aren't any names, to have
people who are walking down the street and Dorćol maybe know what was there before, maybe think
about it. I think it's it's a way of of marking people who are unmarked, you know, so my grandfather
doesn't have a grave. He doesn't have really anything, nothing that he owned, has survived. But it would
be just a way of marking that he was a person that he lived a life there and that life was cut short
prematurely by a genocide.

Haim Brill 19:07
I think meaningful. Buildings come down, and so are street redone, but they can stay even if a street is
redone, it can be reposted or re inserted. I hope mom puts it in place.

Zil 19:27
Yeah, I mean, it's very important to commemorate. So it'll be kind of a permanent, you know, evidence
of some past history. I hope that the young generation will be familiar with that and know what it
represents and signifies

Sophie Brill Weitz 19:45
it sounds like like marking as sort of a way of remembering. Do you do you think about remembering as
being like a personal act or being political or how do you Think about that?

Julie Brill 20:01
I mean, that's a great question. It's a personal act for me. I mean, I didn't know my grandfather or my
grandparents at all. But it seems like something that that I can do in a personal way, reaching across the
generations, you know. I can't undo what happened, but I can at least make it a little bit more known.
But I think in doing that personal act, it also is a political thing. And in Serbia, right now, it feels very
political, because there aren't any stones yet. So I mean, the hope is that some stones will lead to more
stones will lead to more understanding of what happened. And I think that's really the only way that we
can ever hope to prevent genocides from happening again, is to reflect on what has happened already.

Sophie Brill Weitz (narration) 20:44
I asked my grandfather the same question about the intersection of what's personal and what's political.
He agreed with my mom that it's a combination.

Haim Brill 20:54
Definitely a personal because my name, my last name, will be here. And my parents, of course, and all
that. So it is a personal, but it's also more than personal. More in line of remember.

Julie Brill 21:11
I mean, I think it is important to remember, to never to forget, but, you know, what is the purpose of that
remembering? I think if it's not about preventing genocide, that, you know, it's just sort of us talking
about our families, or what we lost as a community, you want it to be something bigger than that. And I
think that's some of the problem with getting these stones in Serbia is that Serbia has its own genocide,
that it's accountable for. What happened in the 90s. And you know, so I think that's also part of why they
don't, they don't want to look at it. We say never again, but in fact, it happened again in Yugoslavia. So
that's a pretty heavy weight.

Sophie Brill Weitz 21:52
Nikola agrees that these stones should be placed in Belgrade. And he echoes a common refrain when I
talked to my family about this. Why not?

Nikola 22:01
I think it should. Why not? I think they should exist here. Because the Jewish community was a big part
of the history of our city especially, our country more or less, but our capital city it was a big part. So
yeah, every every, every way of remembering I think it would be good. And I think it's a good metaphor,
and a good way of remembering the Holocaust, because I can imagine that you're walking on the streets,
look down, and just for the second, you remember what was happening here. More like who was leaving
here before.

Sophie Brill Weitz (narration) 22:50
Although it seems obvious to us that we should be able to place these stones, and that there's no reason
not to. That hasn't always been the reaction in the government in Belgrade. Over 75,000 stolpersteine
have been placed across Europe. But there aren't any in Serbia, yet. Each city's mayor has to approve
them. My mom has been trying for years without much luck. The mayor of Belgrade hasn't been

Julie Brill 23:17
And I'm, you know, just really starting to understand maybe why it's so difficult. I think if I had
understood in the beginning, maybe I wouldn't have tried. But it just seemed like it was maybe an
oversight, that no one had thought about doing it before. And now I understand that it's, you know, it's
actually I think it's a pretty conscious decision that those stones haven't come in before. That the Serbian
government is not looking necessarily to reflect on the past or their role in it. You know, I think Serbia
would like to think probably that, that they weren't involved in it, you know, they were an occupied
country, and it was something that happened to them. And obviously, there are a lot of people who, you
know, fought the occupation, as partisans or did different kinds of sabotage or, you know, hid Jews, but
there were also people who, you know, were involved and I think that's hard to, to grapple with.

Sophie Brill Weitz 24:05
What, what resistance have you faced? Do you have people say, what you're saying, sort of outright, or
just like they'll never get, you know, never return your call? Because that's what they're thinking?

Julie Brill 24:17
Yeah, I think I think I have to guess and imagine what they're thinking because I'm just not getting
responses to emails. So. But that's that's the thing that that makes the most sense to me.

Sophie Brill Weitz (narration) 24:28
It's hard to know why they haven't been responsive. And it could be for any number of reasons we aren't
aware of. But my grandfather agrees that perhaps it's due to a discomfort with acknowledging what

Haim Brill 24:40
It could be a number of reasons. So – I think some people who may have as a nation, not as individual
but collectively, or enough of people, may have misbehaved during that period. They simply don't want
that memory, like engraved and having them to face it. So, from their point of view, it's easier to move
on, then to look back. There could be many other reasons. But that's the only one I can think of. Because
it's a small thing to do. I mean, maybe the installation and all that, the costs involved, but to let
somebody do it to issue a permit, it's a trivial thing. So it's more of a philosophical thing versus an effort.
And they may just not want that memory around them. People do that. I mean, on the smaller cases, you
know, not the significant event like this. We sometimes don't want to talk about it. Just move on.

Sophie Brill Weitz 25:55
We do that all the time in this country.

Haim Brill 25:57
Yeah, yeah, just move on. And in a way, not to justify that behavior, but there is very little they can do
about it. So they're confused between some guilt, or not knowing what's going on in their own mind. So
let's not talk about it, and let's not deal with it. Sometimes people, you know, dig their heels, if they
wanted to do it, to allow it to happen, and they didn't do it the first opportunity, then they just continue
to justify what they did. And it says, yeah, I was right then, I'm right now, and therefore I'll be right

Sophie Brill Weitz (narration) 26:40
The first stones are coming to the Balkans this summer. And we're still hopeful that Belgrade will be
among the cities receiving stones. One way that Serbia does acknowledge what happened is they pay
reparations to Jewish survivors, including my grandfather.

Haim Brill 26:55
They're paying me, and many others, about $700 a year. And they are distributing this to people that
were able to – that aware of it, first of all, and then that were able to prove that they were in Belgrade,
during the occupation. And they're alive. So every year I have to have an affidavit that I'm alive. But the
Serbian government is giving that money because a lot of Jewish property has been confiscated.
Confiscated by the Germans first, and then by the communist government. And the current government
can't do much about it. I mean, people live in it and it's like long time has passed. So that's the
compromise, the compensation.

Sophie Brill Weitz (narration) 27:52
My grandfather feels differently about reparations from Serbia versus reparations from Germany.

Haim Brill 27:58
Germany has been paying compensation for people that suffered either by loss of certain relatives like
my father, or have suffered directly by being in concentration camps, which is not my case, luckily. And
I elected not to take that, because I thought that this is, first of all, financially, I can afford to not to take
it, versus people that need that money. I elected not to take it, the decision I made a long time ago is not
something new. It's over 50 years, but let's call it 50 years. Because I viewed that that's a way of paying
for the wrongs that they did. Now, I must be open and correct, had I needed that money probably I
would have thought differently. But I felt it was paying for a damage that cannot be paid with money.
And that's life. This property, this money that I'm getting now, it's a symbolic thing. But it represents
their admission that they have they have taken property, which is equivalent to money.

Sophie Brill Weitz 29:30
Essentially, you're saying you can't can't pay back life that was taken, but you can pay back the land that
was taken,

Haim Brill 29:36
Right. And even now, financially, I really don't need that money. It's not much money. I think it's
admission on their part. They have stolen something and have taken something by force. And you know,
it goes up every year because less and less people participate in the program. Because of the generation

Sophie Brill Weitz (narration) 30:04
There are also a few other ways that Serbia has acknowledged the Holocaust. In addition to reparations.

Julie Brill 30:09
There are some monuments, I mean, we saw a couple when we were there. There's the one on the
Danube, the menorah, there is one in the cemetery, in the Jewish cemetery – in the Sephardic cemetery. I
think those are both interesting places to put memorials. I mean, certainly the Jewish cemetery, that
monument is huge. And it was built out of the rubble of the buildings in Dorćol, you know, but it's very
hidden away behind the gate of the cemetery. You would only see it if you were someone going into that
cemetery, probably a Jewish person going into that cemetery. It's not something that's, you know, in the
city square or something that people would generally see.

Sophie Brill Weitz 30:53
It seems to me like there's a difference between acknowledging death and acknowledging life. And by
putting something in a cemetery that in itself is sort of placing emphasis on death, which, of course,
people were killed. And that has to be acknowledged, of course, but at least for me, I think the
stolperstein, have some more emphasis on the lives that were lost versus just the deaths that were
committed, or the killings that were committed.

Julie Brill 31:26
Yeah, I think that's a great point. I mean, the lives that were lost, but also the lives that were lived, right,
so they're the marking the place where people were just living their regular lives before the war, or you
know, otherwise, probably in many ways, unremarkable lives, I mean, maybe remarkable if you're the
grandchild and you're interested, but generally unremarkable. You know, and I think about that a lot. I, it
feels unfair to have the way someone died be the most remarkable thing about them. You know, I mean,
in the case of my grandfather, he lived into his 30s. So I mean, you know, he had a son, he had a wife,
he had a career, he had a family, you know, he had other things that maybe we're very ordinary, but are
as important as, as the things that happened to him in the last few months of his life.

Sophie Brill Weitz (narration) 32:14
I never thought about it quite like that. But hearing my mom say it, I realize how important it is. My
great grandfather considered himself a Serb first, and then a Jew. Most of his life was not exclusively
defined by his Judaism. But of course, during his last few months under Nazi occupation, he was forced
to work and murdered because he was Jewish. I asked my grandfather what being Jewish means to him.

Haim Brill 32:41
I think that part of me feeling Jewish, has to do with a war. That some people with power were trying to
erase that. I don't know if the war didn't take place, how much would I be feeling about Judaism? It's
more like somebody tried to take it away. So I feel Jewish starting with the with the war. I should say,
after the war when I realized when I was able to process what is gone on.

Sophie Brill Weitz (narration) 33:19
I have heard a lot of my grandfather's stories. But I'd never thought to ask this question about his Jewish
identity before. So I'd never heard him say that. There always seems to be another layer or another story.
And I think having these conversations with my family helps to keep the stories alive.

Julie Brill 33:38
Doing this recording just makes me realize like, even though we've talked about it in little bits and
pieces, you and I have never sat down and had had a dedicated conversation like we're doing right now.
I think it's maybe representative of how you live with whatever your particular family history is. And
you'd never really like, look at it head on the way you and I are doing right now.

Sophie Brill Weitz 33:58
Yeah, I'm glad too. It's funny because I feel like we talk about this on a least a weekly basis. [Laughs]
Like, I don't know if like it comes up all the time. But yeah, you're right. We haven't like sat down and
in a planned way.

Julie Brill 34:15
I mean, it comes up all the time because Papa talks about it freely, but also because I'm doing this
project, but also because the Holocaust is just not really in the past. So there's always some new movie,
or book, or a news item, or something that can trigger a conversation. It's really, it's not, it's not very
buried at all. It's right in our faces all the time.

Sophie Brill Weitz
This is Sophie Brill Weitz. Thank you for listening to my podcast. I recorded and edited these interviews
in the spring of 2021. Thank you to Aci Brill, Haim Brill, Julie Brill, Rachel Brill, Zil Brill, and Nikola
Savkov. Thank you as well to the Brandeis Sound and Image Media Studios (SIMS).
The music I used is Reaching out by Kevin Macleod, Perspectives by Kevin MacLeod, and Gymnopedie
No. 1 by Kevin MacLeod. All songs can be found at The specific links can
be found in the transcript. They were free to use with attribution. standard license.

Full music attribution:
Reaching Out by Kevin MacLeod
Perspectives by Kevin MacLeod
Gymnopedie No. 1 by Kevin MacLeod

copyright 2021 Sophie Brill Weitz